This is the level of NBA games in the 60s...

[r0drig0lac]

White kid that played college ball in the 60's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWkiO2Iz08

this
look at Pete Maravich, thurmond, russell among other great past, then remember that the best rebounder in the world today is kevin love, and players like zach randolph and marc gasol are excelling in the league today and say that the players of yesteryear not could play today is kinda ridiculous

[Kblaze8855]

Another overly used statement thrown out on here. Not everyone puts their hand under the ball with every dribble today. Just in case you were wondering.

By the 60s standards almost all do. Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Kidd, Kyrie, and Rondo all probably carry or travel by 60s standards literally 40 times a game. I know Rose does. Hes my favorite player but lets just be real.

Dudes back then were called for a carry on a hesitation with their hands on the side of the ball.

Im sure guys could adjust...like how in the first couple games with olympic refs you might see 6 travels. I remember Lebron got called for 2 on uncontested fast break dunks once. But it is what it is.

By the old strict rules....90% of the shit we see now is just out.

Plenty of those old guys could do it. I watched a documentary on Earl Monroe once playing back in north carolina in pickup games and he was just murdering people with the carry spins and hesitations people do today. In footage of him on the streets you see the same.

In the real games he had to tighten it up though.

[Kblaze8855]

Earl Monroe in 1965:



Hesitation, spin, and the crossover evading the trap before the no look pass.

Not like guys back then played ball all their lives and never developed ball handling skills. But what you were allowed to get away with was just not the same.

Ive played not quite NBA level(D1) point guards from the early 70s now in their 50s. You dont just rip them. They dribble so low and so quickly and use their body to protect the ball so well its harder to guard than 19 year olds trying to face up and blow by you.

Im used to that. The old way of protecting the ball is a hassle to deal with.

[pauk]

What i always notice the first thing being very different when seeing these 50s/60s games is their ballhandling, many of them cant even dribble with the left hand, even when they run diagonally left & then right around you, there were some great handlers (like seen above) but overall it just cant be compared to the modern era no matter how you twist & turn it, basketball has unfortunately evolved, not only in the ballhandling area.

[Kblaze8855]

Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U






Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?

[La Frescobaldi]

Just about every sport where the result can be measured has shown a significant improvement over time. This even more apparaent when you consider averages instead of world records (a world record may be skewed due to one freak athlete, but a basketball team has many players).

In the 1960 Olympics the 100m winner ran 10.2s, in 2012 the only finalist not to run under 10s was Asafa Powell who suffered an injury.

In 2012 nearly every finalist was 5% faster than the winner in 1960. In the context of a competitve sport 5% is a huge difference. If you chase someone down a court 5% means that the person is around 4 feet in front of you.

On sheer athleticism todays teams would absolutely destroy a team from the 60's.

On skills its harder to make a judgement, but todays players train more than the players of the 60's, and they train smarter. They have teams of coaches, nutritionists, trainers, video guys, etc. They have the benefits of newer technology, and the weight of an extra 50 years of cumulative basketball knowledge. They likely had exposure to higher level competition and coaching at a much earlier age.

I expect even on skills alone todays teams would still be dominant.

- - - -

EDIT: I would just like to add that this doesn't mean I think there aren't individual players who could survive and even thrive in todays NBA. If you gave them the benefits of todays training there is no question, and some players would surely be great even if you plucked them straight out of the 60's.

No. Track is just one example of technology making sport records ludicrous.

Put Usain Bolt in these spikes.


Let's have him run on cinders instead of a springy computer technology generated track that is known to shave 1/10th of a second & more off of sprint times.

Level the playing field in every respect - and let's see if he's faster than Jesse Owens was in 1936. I'd be curious to find that out.

Or let's give Jesse the diet and stretching regimen that he never even heard of, surround him from age 6 or 8 with world class coaching, trainers, doctors, etc..... then we'll let him run on today's tracks. Then let's see who's faster.

Today's golf driver clubs are so advanced that entire PGA golf courses are obsolete and abandoned because they are too short. Let's get the pro golfers to use hickory clubs and let's see how far and accurate their drives are.

Very soon we are probably going to see Liquid Metal technology on the face of golf clubs. What will golf be like with that stuff? 690 yard drives off the tee?
Sam Snead, Ben Hogan & Tommy Armour were scrubs that would never even make the PGA today!!

[moe94]

Level the playing field in every respect - and let's see if he's faster than Jesse Owens was in 1936. I'd be curious to find that out.

[ImKobe]

Damn them white guys look stiff as hell.

[La Frescobaldi]

Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U






Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?

When Earl was on the Bullets you used to hear something like this from the announcers the first few games every season.

"There's another whistle on the Pearl... He carried it. You can tell he's been playing a different kind of basketball on the playgrounds this summer!!"

"Can you imagine what the NBA was like if those kinds of moves were allowed?"

Now they are allowed, and should be. It makes the game even greater. Forcing D Rose or Rubio or Kyrie to play by the skills rules would take away from the excitement of today's game. I like the fact that the NBA abandoned most of the skills rules. Magic Johnson would never have been magical if they had enforced the 60s skills rules on his game.

I wish they'd get rid of that stupid circle around the basket, though. The rules in the paint that Jordan lived with should be the rules that Durant lives with.

But anyhow measuring the old days through today's eyes is pure revisionism.

[La Frescobaldi]

With all those advantages, Bolt STILL isn't even a quarter second faster than Jesse was. Put him in those same conditions and then compare them.

[LAZERUSS]

Commentator just said (in the link above) 'New York the best defense in basketball, holding opponents to 100 ppg', later its actually said to be 101ppg. An indication of the pace they play

Yeah...I watch that game, and the overall caliber of play is at least the equal of today's NBA...except...the ball is seldom WALKED up the floor, and team's didn't pass up good shots to run the shot-clock down.

And, both Reed and Alcindor looked brilliant in that game. It is obvious that both were be super-stars in today's NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

When Earl was on the Bullets you used to hear something like this from the announcers the first few games every season.

"There's another whistle on the Pearl... He carried it. You can tell he's been playing a different kind of basketball on the playgrounds this summer!!"

"Can you imagine what the NBA was like if those kinds of moves were allowed?"

I have no doubt guys like Pearl had to take a while to adjust. But they DID have to adjust. They could do a lot more than 10 second clips ever show. They just were not allowed to. So im not sure how we post plays that would be 4 carries comparing it to them as if they couldnt carry as well...if the refs allowed it.

Now they are allowed, and should be. It makes the game even greater. Forcing D Rose or Rubio or Kyrie to play by the skills rules would take away from the excitement of today's game.

Im sure telling Hotsauce he has to follow the rules would make an AND-1 game less exciting. But im not sure it makes for a greater game. Just....different.

Me...id like the rules to just be removed if they arent gonna follow them.

Rewrite it to allow 3 or 4 steps with a clear path....

Say you can get under the ball but only say...once per player per touch. So it isnt called if you make a quick carry but you cant just abuse it.

Something.

When we ignore the rules because they limit fun....just change the rules. Dont call it once a game when guys do it 20. Id complain too if you watch me carry 16 times then call me on #17 in the 4th quarter.

[LAZERUSS]

I have no doubt guys like Pearl had to take a while to adjust. But they DID have to adjust. They could do a lot more than 10 second clips ever show. They just were not allowed to. So im not sure how we post plays that would be 4 carries comparing it to them as if they couldnt carry as well...if the refs allowed it.




Im sure telling Hotsauce he has to follow the rules would make an AND-1 game less exciting. But im not sure it makes for a greater game. Just....different.

Me...id like the rules to just be removed if they arent gonna follow them.

Rewrite it to allow 3 or 4 steps with a clear path....

Say you can get under the ball but only say...once per player per touch. So it isnt called if you make a quick carry but you cant just abuse it.

Something.

When we ignore the rules because they limit fun....just change the rules. Dont call it once a game when guys do it 20. Id complain too if you watch me carry 16 times then call me on #17 in the 4th quarter.

As a sidenote...and I apologize for not remembering the second player's name (I was doing other things while watching it)...on Sports Center last night, they had two "highlights" in which Melo took FOUR steps (and was not whistled), and then another player took SEVEN steps (and also was NOT whistled.) Maybe someone else here might have caught that last night...

[SHAQisGOAT]

By the 60s standards almost all do. Rose, Westbrook, Paul, Kidd, Kyrie, and Rondo all probably carry or travel by 60s standards literally 40 times a game. I know Rose does. Hes my favorite player but lets just be real.

Dudes back then were called for a carry on a hesitation with their hands on the side of the ball.

Im sure guys could adjust...like how in the first couple games with olympic refs you might see 6 travels. I remember Lebron got called for 2 on uncontested fast break dunks once. But it is what it is.

By the old strict rules....90% of the shit we see now is just out.

Plenty of those old guys could do it. I watched a documentary on Earl Monroe once playing back in north carolina in pickup games and he was just murdering people with the carry spins and hesitations people do today. In footage of him on the streets you see the same.

In the real games he had to tighten it up though.

Earl Monroe in 1965:



Hesitation, spin, and the crossover evading the trap before the no look pass.

Not like guys back then played ball all their lives and never developed ball handling skills. But what you were allowed to get away with was just not the same.

Ive played not quite NBA level(D1) point guards from the early 70s now in their 50s. You dont just rip them. They dribble so low and so quickly and use their body to protect the ball so well its harder to guard than 19 year olds trying to face up and blow by you.

Im used to that. The old way of protecting the ball is a hassle to deal with.

Someone...just estimate for me...if they called violations the way Jerry west is called here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=PDRQ0FYhC0U






Thats a carry in the 60s.

In the link you can see a slowed down closeup.

If thats a carry....what is what Rondo and Rose do on the break cupping the ball back and forth?

An ejection?

[stephanieg]

I think the oldest games I saw where I thought they could easily hang or even dominate in today's league was the '77 finals. Besides the marquis guys most guys were going up and down the floor like crazy, dunking easily, lots of quick fancy passes. Some of the early 70s finals are borderline. Kinda goofy perimeter action, but good big men. Watching so many guys take set shots is pretty funny, but hey, worked for Sam Perkins.

And of course no three point line makes things interesting.

The way some guys shoot FTs is HILARIOUS too. Wilt is probably the funniest of all time. He just chucks it up like he doesn't give a ****. And can't forget Don Nelson.