Pippen or Worthy?

[3ball]

3ball, please respond to this. I want to understand your side.

My posts have been pretty clear:


Pippen required a ton of improvement when he first came in the league and therefore needed to land on a bad team to get any playing time - this is a fact - for example, his 7.9 ppg would never have gotten playing time on the stacked, 1988 champion Lakers, so his learning curve would've been delayed at best alongside Magic.

Pippen's undeveloped game and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Worthy, who was already good and didn't need to improve - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Worthy was the better player.

As it stands, even if we're being results-oriented and only considering the MJ-developed Pippen, it's still a tossup between Worthy and Pippen - the closeness of the existing comparison makes possible the reality that Worthy is better when we consider all scenarios.

[Dragonyeuw]

3ball, please respond to this. I'm curious as to how you're looking at this. I want to understand your side.

Notice that he can't comment on the substance of their games. There is no argument who's the better passer, rebounder, defender, and even scoring isn't a definite edge for Worthy. So he has to cloud the issue with BS about results-oriented, Worthy being better out of college, MJ-developed and all this other dumb shit to distract from the reality that Pippen is simply the better player, no matter how he arrived at that point. 3ball wants you to believe that all this extra shit matters in the end.....it really doesn't.

[kshutts1]

Well then, barring an explanation that makes my understanding of your "theory" change, I'm left with no choice but to consider you legitimately insane.

Either that, or your mother was Yvette DeLeone.

[Dragonyeuw]

Well then, barring an explanation that makes my understanding of your "theory" change, I'm left with no choice but to consider you legitimately insane.

That,sir, is a results-oriented opinion that hasn't considered all possible scenarios.

[97 bulls]

My posts have been pretty clear:


Pippen required a ton of improvement when he first came in the league and therefore needed to land on a bad team to get any playing time - this is a fact - for example, his 7.9 ppg would never have gotten playing time on the stacked, 1988 champion Lakers, so his learning curve would've been delayed at best alongside Magic.

Pippen's undeveloped game and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Worthy, who was already good and didn't need to improve - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Worthy was the better player.

As it stands, even if we're being results-oriented and only considering the MJ-developed Pippen, it's still a tossup between Worthy and Pippen - the closeness of the existing comparison makes possible the reality that Worthy is better when we consider all scenarios.

Do you feel the only way Pippen could've been great is to have played with Jordan?

[Dragonyeuw]

Do you feel the only way Pippen could've been great is to have played with Jordan?

That's quite clearly what he has been saying all along. There was no way Pippen could have developed into a great player on his own, or with another great player(s) or coach. It's all about MJ.

[TheCorporation]

When Jordan left the Bulls Pippen only won 2 less games.

Pippen > Worthy

[bizil]

I think Pippen would have been a great player on ANY TEAM! He was too skilled and too revolutionary a player not to be great. Could he be the best player on a title team. I think he could IF the team was constructed the right way. Some guys COULD NEVER be the best player on a title team. I happen to think Worthy is one of those guys.

The best player on a title team needs to be a great scorer, a great all around player, or both. Pippen was a great all around player who could also get u 22 points a night. Worthy WASN'T a great scorer OR a great all around player. He was very good in both aspects.

When Kareem was still in his prime, the jury was still out on Worthy as a great scorer. But once Kareem was out his prime, WE COULD REALLY SEE that Worthy wasn't a great alpha dog kind of scorer.

He had his moments for sure. But he was on the 2nd-3rd tier in terms of being a great scorer. The sad part is Worthy had the scoring skillset to be a dominant scorer. He just wasn't as consistent as guys like Bird, Dr. J, King, English, and Nique in that era.

[LAZERUSS]

I think Pippen would have been a great player on ANY TEAM! He was too skilled and too revolutionary a player not to be great. Could he be the best player on a title team. I think he could IF the team was constructed the right way. Some guys COULD NEVER be the best player on a title team. I happen to think Worthy is one of those guys.

The best player on a title team needs to be a great scorer, a great all around player, or both. Pippen was a great all around player who could also get u 22 points a night. Worthy WASN'T a great scorer OR a great all around player. He was very good in both aspects.

When Kareem was still in his prime, the jury was still out on Worthy as a great scorer. But once Kareem was out his prime, WE COULD REALLY SEE that Worthy wasn't a great alpha dog kind of scorer.

He had his moments for sure. But he was on the 2nd-3rd tier in terms of being a great scorer. The sad part is Worthy had the scoring skillset to be a dominant scorer. He just wasn't as consistent as guys like Bird, Dr. J, King, English, and Nique in that era.

Damn...you are making this forum look too intelligent.

[DonDadda59]

When Jordan left the Bulls Pippen only won 2 less games.

And only won 1 playoff round after winning 3 straight championships.

Worthy won finals MVP with Kareem, Magic, Isiah playing in that series. When Kareem left, the Lakers with Worthy as the #1/1B option won 6 more games. Then the next season they were back in the finals with Big Game James as the clear #1 offensive option.

So winning a first round series as your argument is weak as f*ck.

[Kvnzhangyay]

And only won 1 playoff round after winning 3 straight championships.

Worthy won finals MVP with Kareem, Magic, Isiah playing in that series. When Kareem left, the Lakers with Worthy as the #1/1B option won 6 more games. Then the next season they were back in the finals with Big Game James as the clear #1 offensive option.

So winning a first round series as your argument is weak as f*ck.

But even with MJ in 95 they still lost to Orlando

I believe Rodman was key to the second threepeat, despite how 3ball makes Rodman seem worse than Kendrick Perkins

[DonDadda59]

But even with MJ in 95 they still lost to Orlando

And this is relevant to this thread because...

Jordan only played 17 games that season and was clearly rusty as hell. The Bulls had been struggling to stay at or above .500 all season.

I believe Rodman was key to the second threepeat, despite how 3ball makes Rodman seem worse than Kendrick Perkins

Dennis was most definitely not the 'key' to the 3-peat, not any more than Horace Grant was to the first.

[97 bulls]

And only won 1 playoff round after winning 3 straight championships.

Worthy won finals MVP with Kareem, Magic, Isiah playing in that series. When Kareem left, the Lakers with Worthy as the #1/1B option won 6 more games. Then the next season they were back in the finals with Big Game James as the clear #1 offensive option.

So winning a first round series as your argument is weak as f*ck.

Too much is made of the Bulls 94 season in an effort to discredit Jordan. Adding Jordan to the 94 Bulls is basically the 96 Bulls. So adding 18 games which translates to a record setting season and a Championship is a huge jump.


Saying that, Kareem was an old man in 88. Losers dont win Finals MVPs. So it wws basically Magic.

[97 bulls]

I think Pippen would have been a great player on ANY TEAM! He was too skilled and too revolutionary a player not to be great. Could he be the best player on a title team. I think he could IF the team was constructed the right way. Some guys COULD NEVER be the best player on a title team. I happen to think Worthy is one of those guys.

The best player on a title team needs to be a great scorer, a great all around player, or both. Pippen was a great all around player who could also get u 22 points a night. Worthy WASN'T a great scorer OR a great all around player. He was very good in both aspects.

When Kareem was still in his prime, the jury was still out on Worthy as a great scorer. But once Kareem was out his prime, WE COULD REALLY SEE that Worthy wasn't a great alpha dog kind of scorer.

He had his moments for sure. But he was on the 2nd-3rd tier in terms of being a great scorer. The sad part is Worthy had the scoring skillset to be a dominant scorer. He just wasn't as consistent as guys like Bird, Dr. J, King, English, and Nique in that era.

Great post Biz.

[DonDadda59]

Too much is made of the Bulls 94 season in an effort to discredit Jordan.

Exactly. Plenty of teams have won first round series but people here act like it was some miraculous act to accomplish that after winning 3 straight championships.

Saying that, Kareem was an old man in 88. Losers dont win Finals MVPs. So it wws basically Magic.

Jerry West won finals MVP on the losing team and the '88 series was a razor thin 7 game outcome. If someone on the Pistons had a monster series, it wouldn't have been inconceivable for them to win the award. And even if it was 'basically Magic'... Worthy still won finals MVP over him, something Pip never did in 6 trips to the finals with Jordan.