How much athleticism does a player usually lose?

[sundizz]

NBA Athleticism = speed + explosive power + strength + agility + vertical + endurance.

18-21: 85% of max
22-27: 100%
28-32: 80%
33-36: 60%

Sound about right?

[JohnnySic]

Looks about right.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Looks about right.

[ClipperRevival]

To be more specific. I would say:

28-30 - 90%
31-32 - 80%

And after 33, it really depends on the player. Some fall off rather fast while others hold up better. The fact that MJ was far and away the best in the world from 33-35 gets overlooked.

[LoneyROY7]

Hmmm....

Looks about right.

[GIF REACTION]

Hmm just sit right there OP let me crunch some numbers on the calculator

Yep

Looks about right.

[Richie2k6]

Yeah pretty much looks about right..

[rmt]

I don't think it's just a loss of athleticism but a loss in recovery time between games. Manu has said that the youngsters go so fast and when they hit you, it's so jarring (on the old bones). There's also the natural loss in energy as you age.

[chocolatethunder]

NBA Athleticism = speed + explosive power + strength + agility + vertical + endurance.

18-21: 85% of max
22-27: 100%
28-32: 80%
33-36: 60%

Sound about right?

I would disagree with this and say the drop is a lot less. More like you are at 95% then 100% and back down to 95%. I have seen research written about this very subject but how it applies to distance running (which of course is quite different). If you were using max vert and lane agility and other measurable a as your baseline, you would find that the difference in all of those numbers wouldn't be great. What I mean that if someone had a 40" vert at 27 it will not decrease to 32" at age 32 and then 24" by 36. You can see this in sprinting. Athletes lose very little but that very little (2-5%) is what separates them from the rest (of other professionals not normal people). I used max vert just because I can use a nice round number. You can use any of the numbers and they will all be relatively the same. It seems unbelievable but a 2-5% loss or gain in athleticism is huge actually. This is why athletes yes PEDs. They don't get a 20% gain, they get an extra 2% or 5% but when you are already extremely well trained and on an elite level, those extra 2-5 %age points make a huge difference.

[sundizz]

I would disagree with this and say the drop is a lot less. More like you are at 95% then 100% and back down to 95%. I have seen research written about this very subject but how it applies to distance running (which of course is quite different). If you were using max vert and lane agility and other measurable a as your baseline, you would find that the difference in all of those numbers wouldn't be great. What I mean that if someone had a 40" vert at 27 it will not decrease to 32" at age 32 and then 24" by 36. You can see this in sprinting. Athletes lose very little but that very little (2-5%) is what separates them from the rest (of other professionals not normal people). I used max vert just because I can use a nice round number. You can use any of the numbers and they will all be relatively the same. It seems unbelievable but a 2-5% loss or gain in athleticism is huge actually. This is why athletes yes PEDs. They don't get a 20% gain, they get an extra 2% or 5% but when you are already extremely well trained and on an elite level, those extra 2-5 %age points make a huge difference.

That is what I also initially thought/think too.

However, those are averages rather than individual games. It is why Timmy can (over the course of a season) be 40% less athletic, but still be about 90% for one particular game.

Age dimishes the ability to repeatedly do athletic stuff, rather than the capacity for a peak level flash of brilliance. Same reason Kobe and Bron still have some spectacular dunks...but their average dunk is less amazing.

[ClipperRevival]

I would disagree with this and say the drop is a lot less. More like you are at 95% then 100% and back down to 95%. I have seen research written about this very subject but how it applies to distance running (which of course is quite different). If you were using max vert and lane agility and other measurable a as your baseline, you would find that the difference in all of those numbers wouldn't be great. What I mean that if someone had a 40" vert at 27 it will not decrease to 32" at age 32 and then 24" by 36. You can see this in sprinting. Athletes lose very little but that very little (2-5%) is what separates them from the rest (of other professionals not normal people). I used max vert just because I can use a nice round number. You can use any of the numbers and they will all be relatively the same. It seems unbelievable but a 2-5% loss or gain in athleticism is huge actually. This is why athletes yes PEDs. They don't get a 20% gain, they get an extra 2% or 5% but when you are already extremely well trained and on an elite level, those extra 2-5 %age points make a huge difference.

Disagree. Max vertical is a terrible way to measure loss in athleticism. Even old Kobe can get up for that one jump (he's had a couple of monster dunks the last few years) and Vince Carter last year had a prime looking dunk over Gobert. Old guys can get up pretty high for that one jump. It's more about being able to continually explode and not losing anything throughout the game and further, throughout a season. It's also about stamina and not having your legs feels like jelly after running up and down the court. When you are young, you have more natural energy. When you are older, you have to conserve energy.

So to me, that also counts as athleticism.

[ClipperRevival]

That is what I also initially thought/think too.

However, those are averages rather than individual games. It is why Timmy can (over the course of a season) be 40% less athletic, but still be about 90% for one particular game.

Age dimishes the ability to repeatedly do athletic stuff, rather than the capacity for a peak level flash of brilliance. Same reason Kobe and Bron still have some spectacular dunks...but their average dunk is less amazing.

Exactly! Old guys can still give you a near peak vertical. It's what you do the rest of the game and throughout the season that gets affected. You just don't have the same bounce in your step after you turn 30. You lose a little something. And your bounce and stamina gradually decline after that.

[ClipperRevival]

I don't understand why so many people look at max vertical to measure athleticism. Most NBA players playing 1-3 can jump pretty darn high. But that doesn't really reflect how fluid, agile, lightness of feet, explosive, etc you are. A better measure is standing vertical. It's much harder to jump higher from a standstill and most explosive players do well in this test.

I think there should be a test for multiple jumps from a standstill position. And also how long it takes a player to get off those two jumps (maybe there is one already?). The guys who can quickly get off two jumps and can get high in the initial jump and get close to max height in the second jump would say a lot to me.

[PP34Deuce]

I believe it has to do with recovery time and maintaining that athletiscm.

Deion Sanders had said 3 years ago, he could still run sub 4.6 and could still get up high. He also said he couldn't give max stretch no more than 10 minutes.

[chocolatethunder]

Disagree. Max vertical is a terrible way to measure loss in athleticism. Even old Kobe can get up for that one jump (he's had a couple of monster dunks the last few years) and Vince Carter last year had a prime looking dunk over Gobert. Old guys can get up pretty high for that one jump. It's more about being able to continually explode and not losing anything throughout the game and further, throughout a season. It's also about stamina and not having your legs feels like jelly after running up and down the court. When you are young, you have more natural energy. When you are older, you have to conserve energy.

So to me, that also counts as athleticism.

Did you read the part where I said "I'm just using max vert to use a round number but it applies to everything"? You could use any of the measurables. Again, you can see this in sprinting or football or any other sport. Guys who run a 4.3 40 all of a sudden don't start running 5.6 40s. Use whatever measurement that you want. Again, PEDs will give you a small edge and at the elite level that is what you need to be better than the best of the best. These guys experience small drops in athleticism but that makes a huge difference. A 40% drop? No way. A 40% drop in athletiscm would put anyone out of the league.

You can have plenty of stamina a well into your 30s and 40s. Haile Gebrselassie was killing the WR in the marathon at almost 40.