Start a franchise with Isiah Thomas or John Stockton?

[L.A. Jazz]

i would take Stockton, because i dont want my PG to be the main scoring option, and except for pure scoring John is the better player.

[ShaqAttack3234]

One guy was the main option for his team, the other was either 3nd or third option.

Lol at he'd have 2 titles vs someone who has 2 titles and played that same Michael Jordan guy you mentioned.

Yep, and he also played Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers a few times. If not for the Laimbeer call in '88, Detroit has that ring as well, in a game that saw Isiah drop 43 on a bad ankle. Stockton never came as close to a ring as that '88 Detroit/LA series, and Isiah won 2 actual rings in addition to that. Of course, Detroit's bid for a 3peat was stopped by Jordan's Bulls who Stockton gets a pass for losing against, and Isiah was injured in that series and ultimately never quite the same. Also lost in 7 games in the ECF to the Celtics in '87(the series with Bird's famous steal) I doubt they win it all in '87 regardless of whether they beat Boston, but Isiah's Pistons were in serious contention for a title every year from '87-'91. If we play the Jordan card in '91, then I'm still not sure they beat the Lakers, but it's possible. And a far more reasonable excuse is the Laimbeer call on Kareem's sky hook in '88, though calls like that are part of the game.

Regardless, it's pretty ridiculous to use the Jordan excuse for Stockton when Isiah was facing prime Bird, Magic and Jordan pretty much every year.

[Shade8780]

Isiah.

This. So much.

Although I would argue Stockton was the 2rd or second option most of the time.

[Shade8780]

Building around a second option

[Segatti]

Stockton

[ProfessorMurder]

I want the guy who plays at the same level for 20 years.

[bizil]

Give me Isiah over Stock. At PG guys like Isiah, Magic, Big O, Tiny, CP3, etc. give you the premium dimes, floor generalship, etc. u want from a PG. But they also have the alpha dog takeover ability of the best scorers in the L or damn close. Stock is just as good of a floor general-dime dropper and a better defender. But give me Zeke, to me the gold standard for smaller PG's under 6'3.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'd probably go w/ Stockton because of his consistent play; here are their H2H stats:

goo.gl/jGHv8

Stockton: 13/12/3/2 on 46% shooting and 80% FT
Thomas: 23/8/4/2 on 50% shooting and 74% FT

[bizil]

Yep, and he also played Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers a few times. If not for the Laimbeer call in '88, Detroit has that ring as well, in a game that saw Isiah drop 43 on a bad ankle. Stockton never came as close to a ring as that '88 Detroit/LA series, and Isiah won 2 actual rings in addition to that. Of course, Detroit's bid for a 3peat was stopped by Jordan's Bulls who Stockton gets a pass for losing against, and Isiah was injured in that series and ultimately never quite the same. Also lost in 7 games in the ECF to the Celtics in '87(the series with Bird's famous steal) I doubt they win it all in '87 regardless of whether they beat Boston, but Isiah's Pistons were in serious contention for a title every year from '87-'91. If we play the Jordan card in '91, then I'm still not sure they beat the Lakers, but it's possible. And a far more reasonable excuse is the Laimbeer call on Kareem's sky hook in '88, though calls like that are part of the game.

Regardless, it's pretty ridiculous to use the Jordan excuse for Stockton when Isiah was facing prime Bird, Magic and Jordan pretty much every year.

great point! Isiah slayed the giants and was likely a top five player in the L during that time period. Isiah had the scoring acumen to challenge Bird, Magic, and MJ. When it came to taking over a game in the crucial moments, Isiah was on the level with MJ, Magic, Bird, and Nique or damn close. Stock wasn't close to that level of scorer.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Thomas.

Malone gets a bad rep for choking but Stockton didn't help matters at all.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'd take Thomas, but I can see the reasoning behind Stockton.

Stockton and it's not close.

He'd have two championships if Jordan didn't happen to enter his prime.

@ it not being close. It's fine to pick Stockton because he fits your vision of what you want your PG to be, but to say it's not close when a majority of posters have said otherwise and it would probably have been Thomas all the way back in the 80-early 90s circa.

And what about Jordan ? Stockton played from 84-03 and became a starter in 88. He only faced Jordan twice. How come he couldn't get to the Finals and win every other year he didn't face Jordan ? It's a weak and flawed argument. Especially considering Thomas's Pistons beat Jordan's Bulls in his prime, Bird's Celtics, and the Showtime Lakers.

[Lebron23]

I'll go with Isiah, he's a great playmaker himself, but he also took over games many times when he needed to. I didn't see that much from Stockton, even in many games where Utah really could have used it. It just wasn't his game/mentality, and I think as a franchise player, that gives a real edge to Isiah. Zeke was a streak shooter, but he was also much more dangerous and creative off the dribble. He was also versatile enough to share ball-handling duties with Dumars and Vinnie Johnson and make the guard positions interchangeable.

This

The difference between Stockton and Thomas is that Zeke elevated his game in the playoffs and NBA Finals.

The Bad boy Pistons were the only team to beat Bird's Celtics, Showtime Lakers, and Jordan's Bulls in the playoffs. Thomas made them a very dangerous team in the playoffs.

[Whoah10115]

The argument you could make for Stockton is that he was elite but you didn't have to build around him. Great scorers would love to play with Stockton.


I'd still take Isiah, but I could see how it would be easier to start with Stockton...

[tontoz]

If not for the Laimbeer call in '88, Detroit has that ring as well, in a game that saw Isiah drop 43 on a bad ankle.

Funny how often people mention that game but nobody mentions that Detroit nearly won the following game without Thomas.

[Levity]

My two favorite pg's of all time. Thomas is the better overall player, but stockon is the better PG. Defense, hmmm.. id probably give that to stockon, but like everyone has already said, the mere fact that zeke was able to take over a game in the scoring department at any given moment would make him the easy choice for starting a new franchise.

For an already established team looking for a floor general... well that could go either way depending on the make up of said team.

Put Stockon on the WCF suns, and do you think they make the finals that year?