Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

[RRR3]

PIP PIP HOORAY! Scottie too Hottie!

[Da_Realist]

I'm not comparing Pippen to Jordan Calabis. What the **** are you talking about?


And when did Worthy "toast" Pippen?

Game 1 Worthy shot 11/24 and scored 22 pts with Pippen on him

Game 2 Jordan moved over to Worthy and he shot 9/17 and scored 24 pts his best game.

Game 3 Worthy was 9/16 for 19 pts with Pippen on him

Game 4 Worthy was 6/16 for 12 pts with Pippen on him

Pippen did a great job on Worthy


And yes that game two was a series changer.

Calabis is right. Worthy was pretty good against Pippen despite the ankle. He was good against Jordan, too, but Jordan didn't guard him as much. I just saw the first 2 and a half games the last couple of days. Even before this topic veered toward this way, I was thinking about how good Worthy was in the 91 Finals and how much I forgot about it. At least for the first 2 and a half games... I plan on watching the rest of Game 3 tonight after everyone goes to bed.

[Legends66NBA7]

I've constantly said this and will say it again: Havlicek is the most underrated player on ISH.

That is probably true, but I would think he's also overrated in a sense when people compare him to a superior player and consider Hondo to be equal in terms of legacy/player (not that this comparison isn't warranted, it very much is).

[SHAQisGOAT]

I think anyone without being biased can say that Hondo is a top 5 SF (at the very least) and while Pip has a case for it, it's def not that strong over guys like Bird, Baylor, Hondo, Erving, now LeBron. Even Barry is above him in my book. Not taking anything from him because those are just amazing players and Pip was also really great, one of my fav players actually.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Once again if Pippen's impact is so great then why is he not usually regarded as a top 20 player of all time. Especially given all of his accolades and achievements? U keep avoiding talking about that shit because u KNOW Pip isn't a top 20 player of all time.

If u gave Mailman six rings, he would be regarded as the GOAT PF. Ditto for Chuck. Ditto for KG. Ditto for Dirk. Ditto for Pettit. Ditto for Hayes. U give any of those immortals six rings they are most likely the GOAT PF. The main thing that separates those guys at PF is the fact that Timmy has four rings, while the others have at the most three like McHale. All of those guys were flat out MORE DOMINANT players than Pippen. U give them six rings, shiiiiiit! If Pippen WAS ANYWHERE NEAR JORDAN'S LEVEL, HE WOULD BE A TOP TEN GOAT FLAT OUT!! For Pip to be rated where he is GOAT wise is a telling statement.

If u gave Dominique Wilkins six rings, he would have been regarded as a top 3 GOAT SF. Given he's scored more points than any SF EVER in NBA History, was great for a long time, and redefined the NBA while becoming one of the 5-6 guys to really make the All Star game what it is today. I can go on and on. Pip ACTUALLY has six rings in his prime years as one of the premier players in the world. For him to be rated by most experts historically at the highest right around 30 GOAT wise is a testament right there. Defend ya boy NOW!!

Very well put

[Legends66NBA7]

I think anyone without being biased can say that Hondo is a top 5 SF (at the very least) and while Pip has a case for it, it's def not that strong over guys like Bird, Baylor, Hondo, Erving, now LeBron. Even Barry is above him in my book. Not taking anything from him because those are just amazing players and Pip was also really great, one of my fav players actually.

You could swap Barry for Hondo in the Top 5, but I agree with the Top 5 sentiments.

[97 bulls]

Calabis is right. Worthy was pretty good against Pippen despite the ankle. He was good against Jordan, too, but Jordan didn't guard him as much. I just saw the first 2 and a half games the last couple of days. Even before this topic veered toward this way, I was thinking about how good Worthy was in the 91 Finals and how much I forgot about it. At least for the first 2 and a half games... I plan on watching the rest of Game 3 tonight after everyone goes to bed.

Worthy scored on Pippen no doubt. But did he toast Pippen? No. His best scoring game was game two. Who guarded him then?

[Calabis]

I'm not comparing Pippen to Jordan Calabis. What the **** are you talking about?

Neither am I, you claimed he led a 15 point comeback, like a one man machine, yet I proved otherwise


And when did Worthy "toast" Pippen?

Game 1 Worthy shot 11/24 and scored 22 pts with Pippen on him

Game 2 Jordan moved over to Worthy and he shot 9/17 and scored 24 pts his best game.

Here you go rewriting history, prior to the first switch on Magic,when Jordan picked up his second foul, Worthy scored 7 points on Pippen in the first quarter, Jordan moved over to Scott(Magic had 0 points at this time) and Levingston came in to guard Worthy, also take note of Jordan's help defense

Game 3 Worthy was 9/16 for 19 pts with Pippen on him

Game 4 Worthy was 6/16 for 12 pts with Pippen on him

Pippen did a great job on Worthy


And yes that game two was a series changer.

Yup all because Pippen's defense

Go ahead move the yardstick

[97 bulls]

Go ahead move the yardstick

For most of the game, Jordans primary man.... was Worthy. Levingston played 22 minutes. Worthy played 40. Noones trying to change anything.



Pippen did a great job on Magic, and dropped 20 points and had 10 assissts in the process.

If anything, Worthy didn't toast Pippen. Did he score some points on him? Sure. But over the course of the series? Worthys contribution was minimal

[97 bulls]

As far as that comeback vs Portland? Pippen did lead the charge. When Jordan left they were down Fifteen.. When he came back they were only down by three. You neglect to mention Pippens defense on Drexler. Didn't he force him into commiting two TOs? And I believe Drexler was 1/4 vs Pippen in that pivotal fouth quarter.

[Pushxx]

Hondo.

[Da_Realist]

Worthy scored on Pippen no doubt. But did he toast Pippen? No. His best scoring game was game two. Who guarded him then?

Magic caught Worthy in transition for a layup after beating Pippen down the court

Worthy hits a three after Pippen doubled down on Divac

Worthy took advantage of Pippen gambling on his post up by spinning around and hitting a bank shot

(Pippen switches onto Magic)

Hits a long jumpshot over Grant

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (after getting a rebound on a broken play)

Takes Levingston off the dribble and hits a mid-range jumpshot

Notice who Worthy didn't score on??? MJ was never assigned to guard Worthy and I only saw one broken play where he forced Worthy into a difficult shot that missed. The rest of the time that Pippen guarded Magic, Grant/Levingston guarded Worthy.


Now I just wasted 30 mins outlining this when you could have easily looked at the game yourself before you made your comment. Post shit and then research never seems to be ISH's motto.

[NumberSix]

8 rings

[97 bulls]

Magic caught Worthy in transition for a layup after beating Pippen down the court

Worthy hits a three after Pippen doubled down on Divac

Worthy took advantage of Pippen gambling on his post up by spinning around and hitting a bank shot

(Pippen switches onto Magic)

Hits a long jumpshot over Grant

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (Grant was defending him)

Hits an open jumpshot (after getting a rebound on a broken play)

Takes Levingston off the dribble and hits a mid-range jumpshot

Notice who Worthy didn't score on??? MJ was never assigned to guard Worthy and I only saw one broken play where he forced Worthy into a difficult shot that missed. The rest of the time that Pippen guarded Magic, Grant/Levingston guarded Worthy.


Now I just wasted 30 mins outlining this when you could have easily looked at the game yourself before you made your comment. Post shit and then research never seems to be ISH's motto.

Ok. I stand corrected. Did he toast Pippen? I've asked you this three times now.

[Da_Realist]

Ok. I stand corrected. Did he toast Pippen? I've asked you this three times now.

I wouldn't say toasted (Pippen still played great D) but his defense didn't bother Worthy as much as you'd expect considering he had a bum wheel. Worthy was a technically sound post up player with excellent footwork, a lightning fast first step and one of the best spin moves the league has seen. He was a very crafty dude. He was quick enough to spin past Pippen and crafty enough to find open spots on the floor when Pippen (or Grant) doubled off of him.