Michael Jordan Fury II

[Showtime80']

Cuter than Rubio, when something is BETTER it's just BETTER!!!

Go look at ANY of the documentaries or specials done on Isiah, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, Olajuwon or ANY of the greats of the 1980's and hear the guys from the 50's, 60's and 70's absolutely IDOLIZE AND EXALT THOSE PLAYERS!!! They knew that what they were watching was something special and those players from the 80's played the game with a fundamental mastery and basketball IQ level similar to those of the 60's!

That IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!!! And anybody that's watched basketball for more than 20+ years can see the decay in the quality of the game of basketball thanks to the over the top rule changes and the horrendous decay in fundamentals that has occurred in the 21st century!!!

When something better than the 80's comes along, people from ALL GENERATIONS will recognize it, IT JUST HAS NOT HAPPENED YET!!!

It took soccer 20+ years to find a talent similar to Pele in Maradona and it took them another 30+ to find a talent in the same breath as them with Ronaldo7/Messi and that's with that sport being the MOST POPULAR IN THE WORLD with entire countries sport's resources devoted to the sport!!!

It's going to take the NBA a little bit longer and with the pathetic draft class of 2016 I can't see it happening in very long while!

[CuterThanRubio]

Cuter than Rubio, when something is BETTER it's just BETTER!!!

Go look at ANY of the documentaries or specials done on Isiah, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Barkley, Olajuwon or ANY of the greats of the 1980's and hear the guys from the 50's, 60's and 70's absolutely IDOLIZE AND EXALT THOSE PLAYERS!!! They knew that what they were watching was something special and those players from the 80's played the game with a fundamental mastery and basketball IQ level similar to those of the 60's!

That IS NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!!! And anybody that's watched basketball for more than 20+ years can see the decay in the quality of the game of basketball thanks to the over the top rule changes and the horrendous decay in fundamentals that has occurred in the 21st century!!!

When something better than the 80's comes along, people from ALL GENERATIONS will recognize it, IT JUST HAS NOT HAPPENED YET!!!

It took soccer 20+ years to find a talent similar to Pele in Maradona and it took them another 30+ to find a talent in the same breath as them with Ronaldo7/Messi and that's with that sport being the MOST POPULAR IN THE WORLD with entire countries sport's resources devoted to the sport!!!

It's going to take the NBA a little bit longer and with the pathetic draft class of 2016 I can't see it happening in very long while!

So you agree that athletes today are superior?

You have openly recognized that soccer is better now than before, why not basketball?

You are blinded by nostalgia like the rest of these delusional slobs!


The talent pool is deeper and kids are getting access to professional grade training, why do you think Curry and Klay are so skilled? They mastered the fundamentals before the rest of their peers could dribble without looking at the ball, its not hard to understand.


There has been no decay, there have been various improvements, you really think that illegal defense and hand checking was necessary? ( If you have to hold onto someone to keep them from getting by you then you aren't a good defender)

80s and 90s basketball was much sloppier, wild scrums in the paint off fastbreak layup attempts and boring post up play

3ball>2ball

[90sgoat]

It took soccer 20+ years to find a talent similar to Pele in Maradona and it took them another 30+ to find a talent in the same breath as them with Ronaldo7/Messi and that's with that sport being the MOST POPULAR IN THE WORLD with entire countries sport's resources devoted to the sport!!!

It's going to take the NBA a little bit longer and with the pathetic draft class of 2016 I can't see it happening in very long while!

True, Maradona might still be considered the best ever though, since neither Ronaldo or Messi have won the World Cup.

If we're talking the best since Maradona, most people have Zinedine Zidane and put him right up there.

Messi/Ronaldo have never achieved the sheer dominance of Zidane. Messi have had some really good Argentina teams and could not win. France has not won a single thing since Zidane quit.

Soccer also suffers from 'new shiny thing' syndrome and I would honestly say prime Louis Figo was better than prime Ronaldo. Figo was covered with TWO defenders on EVERY play in his prime and he was a superior playmaker to Ronaldo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gx_4P6Ofeg

[Straight_Ballin]

True, Maradona might still be considered the best ever though, since neither Ronaldo or Messi have won the World Cup.

If we're talking the best since Maradona, most people have Zinedine Zidane and put him right up there.

Messi/Ronaldo have never achieved the sheer dominance of Zidane. Messi have had some really good Argentina teams and could not win. France has not won a single thing since Zidane quit.

Soccer also suffers from 'new shiny thing' syndrome and I would honestly say prime Louis Figo was better than prime Ronaldo.

How are any of those guys better than Pele? Doesn't he have like 3 FIFA world cups?

[Showtime80']

I said mentioned in the same breath!!! A lot different than being better, right know there is NOBODY CLEARLY BETTER than Pele, Maradona or the ORIGINAL Ronaldo!!! The Brazil national team of 1970 would run CIRCLES around the present day national team, same for the German team of 1960's and 70's!

The talent pool BS is a myth, youth participation for basketball reached it's ZENITH around the mid 80's and has continued to go down ever since. Today the AMERICAN TALENT pool has decreased and the only viable minor league system the NBA has ever had, NCAA Basketball, it's probably at it's worst period it HAS EVER HAD!!! Churning out RAW, DUMB, FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED ONE AND DONES!!!! That more than anything has RUINED THE QUALITY OF THE NBA!!!

And the international talent pool is vastly overrated. This year's all-star game was AN ALL AMERICAN AFFAIR and the last true international superstar was Dirk Nowitzky who was drafted back in the late 80's!!!

80's and EARLY 90'S basketball was FASTER, HIGHER SCORRING AND MORE EFFICIENT!!! Than the crap you see today even with the increase in 3 point shooting!!!

The NBA today has NO DOMINANT POST PLAYERS and no true PASS FIRST PG's, that's why it has resorted to jacking up ill-advised 3 point shots. The easiest ways to score on the half court and the fast break ARE GONE!!!

[CuterThanRubio]

I said mentioned in the same breath!!! A lot different than being better, right know there is NOBODY CLEARLY BETTER than Pele, Maradona or the ORIGINAL Ronaldo!!! The Brazil national team of 1970 would run CIRCLES around the present day national team, same for the German team of 1960's and 70's!

The talent pool BS is a myth, youth participation for basketball reached it's ZENITH around the mid 80's and has continued to go down ever since. Today the AMERICAN TALENT pool has decreased and the only viable minor league system the NBA has ever had, NCAA Basketball, it's probably at it's worst period it HAS EVER HAD!!! Churning out RAW, DUMB, FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED ONE AND DONES!!!! That more than anything has RUINED THE QUALITY OF THE NBA!!!

And the international talent pool is vastly overrated. This year's all-star game was AN ALL AMERICAN AFFAIR and the last true international superstar was Dirk Nowitzky who was drafted back in the late 80's!!!

80's and EARLY 90'S basketball was FASTER, HIGHER SCORRING AND MORE EFFICIENT!!! Than the crap you see today even with the increase in 3 point shooting!!!

The NBA today has NO DOMINANT POST PLAYERS and no true PASS FIRST PG's, that's why it has resorted to jacking up ill-advised 3 point shots. The easiest ways to score on the half court and the fast break ARE GONE!!!

Faster and higher scoring because the DEFENSE WAS TERRIBLE!




Read my username, best passer in the league, son!



I can't take you seriously!

[Hey Yo]

Not surprised showtime80's, 90sgoat and Straight_ Altin' are Soccer fans.

[Hey Yo]

How are any of those guys better than Pele? Doesn't he have like 3 FIFA world cups?

How can Jordan be better than Russell? Doesn't he have 11 titles?

How can Fouts be better than Dilfer? Doesn't he have a SB ring?


Nice logic

[90sgoat]

How are any of those guys better than Pele? Doesn't he have like 3 FIFA world cups?

Pele is sort of the Wilt or Russel of soccer, he played so far back no one remembers him and there isn't much video. The game was also waaaaay different, like with basketball, much slower, much less physical, much more room to operate.

Watch this guy too, Garincha, basically created the modern brazilian type of dribbling like with Ronaldinho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYyx87NWrU

Pele would probably be just as good, but like Wilt/Russel, he was a pioneer so he didn't have other greats to build upon.

It's also more of a question of position, soccer fans generally place more value on the '10' position, the offensive midfielder who does not only score but also sets up his teammates like Laudrup, Zidane, Cruyf.

[90sgoat]

I said mentioned in the same breath!!! A lot different than being better, right know there is NOBODY CLEARLY BETTER than Pele, Maradona or the ORIGINAL Ronaldo!!! The Brazil national team of 1970 would run CIRCLES around the present day national team, same for the German team of 1960's and 70's!

The talent pool BS is a myth, youth participation for basketball reached it's ZENITH around the mid 80's and has continued to go down ever since. Today the AMERICAN TALENT pool has decreased and the only viable minor league system the NBA has ever had, NCAA Basketball, it's probably at it's worst period it HAS EVER HAD!!! Churning out RAW, DUMB, FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED ONE AND DONES!!!! That more than anything has RUINED THE QUALITY OF THE NBA!!!

And the international talent pool is vastly overrated. This year's all-star game was AN ALL AMERICAN AFFAIR and the last true international superstar was Dirk Nowitzky who was drafted back in the late 80's!!!

80's and EARLY 90'S basketball was FASTER, HIGHER SCORRING AND MORE EFFICIENT!!! Than the crap you see today even with the increase in 3 point shooting!!!

The NBA today has NO DOMINANT POST PLAYERS and no true PASS FIRST PG's, that's why it has resorted to jacking up ill-advised 3 point shots. The easiest ways to score on the half court and the fast break ARE GONE!!!

I've followed soccer since 1990 since before basktball (I am euro).

The best players I've seen is Zidane, pre-injury Ronaldo and young Romario. All of them better than current stars.

Ronaldo pre-injury was probably the highest peak I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx4F-texNeU

[3ball]

You have openly recognized that soccer is better now than before, why not basketball?

[COLOR="navy"]The list below shows that SG's and SF's from previous eras match today's era man-for-man and are [COLOR="black"]more individually-unique and one-of-a-kind[/COLOR] in their skill (not like today's 3-and-D robots)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR]1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook...... Penny Hardaway
Tracey McGrady......... Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Klay Thompson......... Reggie Miller


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Gary Payton, Reggie Lewis, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis

[COLOR="navy"]^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars[/COLOR]

[90sgoat]

Not surprised showtime80's, 90sgoat and Straight_ Altin' are Soccer fans.

I don't watch soccer anymore. The whole thing became useless when Champions League became a fixture with the same teams every year and all teams in all leagues began playing the same style with 4-5-1.

[3ball]

I've followed soccer since 1990 since before basktball (I am euro).

The best players I've seen is Zidane, pre-injury Ronaldo and young Romario. All of them better than current stars.

Ronaldo pre-injury was probably the highest peak I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx4F-texNeU

[3ball]

[COLOR="navy"]The list below shows that SG's and SF's from previous eras match today's era man-for-man and are [COLOR="black"]more individually-unique and one-of-a-kind[/COLOR] in their skill (not like today's 3-and-D robots)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR]1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook...... Penny Hardaway
Tracey McGrady......... Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Klay Thompson......... Reggie Miller


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Gary Payton, Reggie Lewis, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe, Glenn Robinson

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis

[COLOR="navy"]^^^^^ Remember, this is just the wing players - if we add the bigs, previous eras blow today's era to Mars[/COLOR]

what did i miss

[Showtime80']

So I guess defenses today have GONE BACK to being terrible since pace, ppg and FG% are WAAYY HIGHER than those of the late 90's and 2000's!!!!

The 1980's scores and pace were high because the LEAGUE WAS LOADED!!!! Almost every team in a 23 team league had solid low post scoring and solid pass first PG's that KNEW HOW TO QUATERBACK an offense both in the half court and in the fast break!

Things started to go downhill with the draft classes of the early to mid 90's with more and more guys leaving school earlier and focusing on ATHLETICISM instead of fundamentals, call it the "I wanna be like Mike" effect!!! Those 90's hip hop knuckle heads took turns getting their sh!t pushed in by the OLDER VERSIONS of Jordan, Scottie, Stockton, Malone, Olajuwon, Ewing, Drexler, Barkley and Ewing!