ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #14. Scottie Pippen vs Elgin Baylor.

[Gotterdammerung]

Elgin Baylor: 14 years, 10 quality, 11 All-Stars, '63 MVP runner-up. Top 5 in 59 through '65, 67, 68, 69. Peaked with 35, 17, 5 for 3 years. Best/second best on 8 Finalists.

Simply put, Elgin changed the game the same way Russell changed the defense forever. The "man of a 1000 moves" probably was the most dynamic scorer of all forwards. Most interesting was that Elgin had a built in head fake, a facial tic that threw defenders off guard. Baylor had extremely powerful right handed dribble drives and if the defense was packed he'd hit 15-17 foot jumpers consistently.

Baylor invented hang-time: from the left side, take off, elevate and wait till the defender crashed back down till he released the ball.

Powerful rebounder (13.5 career) and solid passer. But the Tick Tock Man was ambivalent on defense, and not a great practice player.

Elgin was the better player than Pippen, but Pippen was the greater forward (better all-around, better teammate, better defender, better winner, etc.).

[L.Kizzle]

Lol if Pippen wins this. To most Bqaylor is considered a top 14 player ALL TIME. Here he's fighting for a top 14 spot with just forwards.

[DaPerceive]

Lol if Pippen wins this. To most Bqaylor is considered a top 14 player ALL TIME.

lolwut? My vote would go to Pippen but I am not going to bother explaining so you don't have to count my vote if you don't want to. Fatal9 nailed everything.

[RRR3]

In what universe is Scottie Pippen better than Elgin Baylor? "B-b-b-b-b-but Pippen has DEM RANGZ DOE!!!!"

[JMT]

Baylor.

[WillC]

Elgin Baylor.

Tremendous player, one of the all-time greats. Many players from that era have said they would choose him in their all-time starting five (how many players said that about Pippen? Anyone?).

Without Jordan's influence, Pippen wouldn't even be in this conversation. It would be a no brainer than Baylor was better.

[nycelt84]

Baylor

[Miller for 3]

Does anyone actually have a reason for voting for Baylor other than volume stats and accolades? He seems like a relativley low impact player. As fatal stated, the Lakers records with Baylor b4 West weren't that good. As soon as Elgin retired the Lakers went on a 33 game winning streak and eventually won the title. They made the finals in 65 despite missing Elgin missing the playoffs. Watching him play he had very poor shot selection even for that era. I can't comment on his defense, but he was a great rebounder and underrated passer, but I don't think he was more impactful than Pippen

[BlackJoker23]

scottie pippen. 2nd best player of the 90s

[Legends66NBA7]

In what universe is Scottie Pippen better than Elgin Baylor? "B-b-b-b-b-but Pippen has DEM RANGZ DOE!!!!"

I think Scottie's underrated as well. And no he doesn't just have "them rings".

Scottie has:
-better intangibles
-better work ethic from his time with the Bulls
-better locker room leadership
-ultimate teamplayer
-by far the better defender

Those are things I believe that Baylor was documented for lacking in. Some of Scottie's best atributtes won't be found in a stat sheet.

Though yes I agree with you that Baylor is the better player when you factor in how much more he meant to his team. He shouldn't be disregarded because he was losing to the Celtics all those years, while still putting top notch production and setting records.

Also considering the era he was playing in wasn't under the best circumstances of his race and the fact he had to go serve for the army during the prime was career.

This is a lot more debatable then say Bob Cousy vs Dwyane Wade. Since Baylor pretty much changed his position and you could say Pippen perfected it to a notch. Though, to vote between these 2, I would have to go with Elgin Baylor.

[L.Kizzle]

Lol, rookie Baylor took the Lakers to the Finals.

[Legends66NBA7]

Lol, rookie Baylor took the Lakers to the Finals.

At 33-39, beating the 28-44 Detriot Pistons and 49-23 St.Louis Hawks.

Next year, they come 1 game again from going to the Finals and they were 25-50 that season.

[97 bulls]

Scottie Pippen

He's accomplished more in the nba than baylor.

[JMT]

Does anyone actually have a reason for voting for Baylor other than volume stats and accolades? He seems like a relativley low impact player. As fatal stated, the Lakers records with Baylor b4 West weren't that good. As soon as Elgin retired the Lakers went on a 33 game winning streak and eventually won the title. They made the finals in 65 despite missing Elgin missing the playoffs. Watching him play he had very poor shot selection even for that era. I can't comment on his defense, but he was a great rebounder and underrated passer, but I don't think he was more impactful than Pippen

Fair question.

When the game is dominated by big men, there is no more difficult position from which to dominate than SF. Baylor wasn't any bigger than Oscar Robertson, but was an inside force.

People tend to pick at his shot selection, but in 10 different seasons he was Top 10 in FGs; the same # of years he was Top 10 in FG taken.

8 x Top 10 in rebounds
4 x Top 10 in assists
8 x Top 5 in MVP voting

Lived at the FT line. Made the most of his opportunities, shooting close to 80%. As mentioned in an earlier post, was at his best in the post season. One of the best playoff scoreers in history. Look at the records of the teams he took to the Finals and deep in the playoffs. He was a one man gang.

Yes, the Lakers went on a tear when he retired, but Baylor was shot at that point. After 1968-69, he could barely walk, let alone run or jump. They got Wilt for just that reason; There was no such thing as another wing player that could deliver all Baylor could. Wilt could fill the gap, even at his advanced age.

When looking at awards, you have to look at the era. The Celtics won every year. Just like now, the champs dominate the individual awards. It's like criticizing guys who played in Jordan's era for not winning more MVP. Born at the wrong time.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Elgin Baylor is a top 15 player of alltime, so he is my vote