2 killer thread ideas

[3ball]

1) Why did MJ's 33/8/8 on 54% get the Bulls only 47 wins in 1989, while Lebron's 28/8/7 on 49% got the Cavs 66 wins in 2010?


2) Let's compare MJ's playoffs stats versus the team that won the championship (1986 Celtics, 1989 Pistons, 1990 Pistons), to Lebron's stats versus the champs (2007 Spurs, 2008 Celtics, 2011 Mavs, 2014 Spurs, 2015 Warriors).

Anyone want to do that work?... I can tell you right now based on guesstimate, that MJ's stats are about 36/7/6 on 50%, while Lebron's are about 26/9/7 on 40%.

[sd3035]

1) Why did MJ's 33/8/8 on 54% get the Bulls only 47 wins in 1989, while Lebron's 28/8/7 on 49% got the Cavs 66 wins in 2010?


2) Let's compare MJ's playoffs stats versus the team that won the championship (1986 Celtics, 1989 Pistons, 1990 Pistons), to Lebron's stats versus the champs (2007 Spurs, 2008 Celtics, 2011 Mavs, 2014 Spurs, 2015 Warriors).

Anyone want to do that work?... I can tell you right now based on guesstimate, that MJ's stats are about 36/7/6 on 50%, while Lebron's are about 26/9/7 on 40%.

LOL I don't think anyone really believ es that Lebron is remotely close to as good as Jordan was

That's like comparing Magic Johnson to Andre Miller

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why do you consistently create 'LeBron vs Jordan' topics? Hell, where do you rate LeBron all-time?

[riseagainst]

LOL I don't think anyone really believ es that Lebron is remotely close to as good as Jordan was

That's like comparing Magic Johnson to Andre Miller

[3ball]

Why do you consistently create 'LeBron vs Jordan' topics? Hell, where do you rate LeBron all-time?

top 20, maybe top 25

that's how big a misconception i think it is

[Megabox!]

Why do you consistently create 'LeBron vs Jordan' topics? Hell, where do you rate LeBron all-time?

He obviously rates him pretty damn high since he's constantly comparing him to MJ

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

top 20, maybe top 25

that's how big a misconception i think it is

Post your top 20-25 bruh

[Trollsmasher]

pace

nobody played defense back then... LeBron would've averaged 34/11/9 on 65% TS easily

[kshutts1]

First, I would love to hear your top 25, 3ball.

Second, you've said on here before that you don't watch games, but rather watch stats... and that's evident in your first "thread idea". There is so much more to a player's effect on the outcome of a game than just the stats.

Third, who cares about comparing numbers against teams that won the title? That's not some equality measuring stick.

Lebron has been to the finals FIVE STRAIGHT TIMES. Just let that sink in. He's amazing. Is he Jordan? No. Is he on Jordan's level? I don't think so, but he's close. Why can't we just appreciate greatness?

[inclinerator]

don't make me ban you again

[Dr Hawk]

pace

nobody played defense back then... LeBron would've averaged 34/11/9 on 65% TS easily

Spacing incoming

[Wade's Rings]

pace

nobody played defense back then... LeBron would've averaged 34/11/9 on 65% TS easily

The 80s & 90s Bulls played at a pace equivalent to Today's League.

[3ball]

Post your top 20-25 bruh

There are many scenarios where a championship team or near-championship team are not really that talented, but they have the perfect mix of players for optimal chemistry - think of the 90's Utah Jazz or 1998 Pacers, or the 2000's Spurs for a more contemporary example.. These teams aren't overloaded with talent - but they've found an optimal, yet delicate chemistry.

So if you replace their best player (Malone, Duncan) with a guy like Lebron, that delicate chemistry is ruined - the team falls into the Lebron-ball glass ceiling, where they're no longer able to employ the optimal strategy that made them elite - and the talent wasn't there to be elite otherwise, so Lebron is stuck with "not enough help", as always.

For example, if Lebron replaced Karl Malone on those Jazz teams, the Jazz wouldn't have been nearly as good.. Those teams relied on Malone being the most HIGHLY-ASSISTED player in the league (as all frontcourt players normally are) - if you replace him with Lebron, who plays like a point guard and is therefore highly UNassisted, the chemistry that made the team so great is gone..

Again, the team would fall into the Lebron-ball glass ceiling, where they're no longer able to employ the optimal strategy that made them elite - and the talent wasn't there to be elite otherwise, so Lebron is stuck with "not enough help", as always.

Here are the guys that are definitely ahead of Lebron imo... But there are plenty more than the guys I'm about to list where it's very close and could go either way (like the aforementioned Malone)... They're better in say, 50% of the possible scenarios, and Lebron is better in the other 50% - but here are the guys that are definites, in order: MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, West, Oscar

[Heavincent]

Anyone want to do that work?...

No.

[kshutts1]

There are many scenarios where a championship team or near-championship team are not really that talented, but they have the perfect mix of players for optimal chemistry - think of the 90's Utah Jazz or 1998 Pacers, or the 2000's Spurs for a more contemporary example.. These teams aren't overloaded with talent - but they've found an optimal, yet delicate chemistry.

So if you replace their best player (Malone, Duncan) with a guy like Lebron, that delicate chemistry is ruined - the team falls into the Lebron-ball glass ceiling, where they're no longer able to employ the optimal strategy that made them elite - and the talent wasn't there to be elite otherwise, so Lebron is stuck with "not enough help", as always.

but here are the guys that are definites, in order: MJ, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Larry, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, West, Oscar

To the bolded, you are 100% right, but the same could be said for nearly any player ever; it's not just Lebron. I know you said "a guy LIKE Lebron", but then you proceeded to just use Lebron-ball as an example. It's not a video game; there are egos and emotions and chemistry to take into account. It's one of the most over-looked and misunderstood aspects of sports.

As for the list of guys definitely ahead of Lebron... I think a few of them are very arguable, but it's a legit list so far. Can't wait to see the rest.