vince carter to ref: "Don't call me boy"

[RainierBeachPoet]

this just in:

reporters sitting courtside said they clearly heard Carter yelling at Stafford, who like Carter is African-American, "Don't call me boy"
...One reporter sitting courtside heard Carter rage to Devin Harris,
"He called me boy."

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200...to_piston.html


anyone see the game?

usually VC is uber-levelheaded so there must be something to this incident

[Mathius]

this just in:

reporters sitting courtside said they clearly heard Carter yelling at Stafford, who like Carter is African-American, "Don't call me boy"
...One reporter sitting courtside heard Carter rage to Devin Harris,
"He called me boy."

http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/200...to_piston.html


anyone see the game?

usually VC is uber-levelheaded so there must be something to this incident

I don't know, but as a white person I still can't fathom why a black man is still going to take offense to being called "boy" in this day and age. I know what the insult is supposed to infer, but just because someone refers to you as "boy" doesn't mean it's racial. My father to this day still calls me boy at times, and yes, I'm white, but this is 2009 for crying out loud. None of you have ever been slaves.

To me, the type of black person that gets offended by the word "boy" is the black equivalent of a redneck.

In that same token a white person trying to use it as a racial insult is clearly an ignorant redneck and/or white trash.

Again, I want to go back to the fact that making everything about being black and white is just making the issue worse, and part of me is irritated that I'm the one who brought this up, but I know where this discussion is headed (not infering anything towards you, RBP, but I know the guys on this board well enough to know where they're going to take this. Just wait for Rasheed1 to jump in and add his 2 cents).

The fact is, standing up for it as a racial term towards black people is just another form of segregation in itself.

We need to stop looking at these things as black or white issues, and just start pointing out the reality of the situation. There's too much hate and racism in the world.

If you want to hate on something, hate on someone doing something stupid. They deserve it. Don't hate on someone for their class, religion, or color.

Mathius

[The Joker]

I don't know, but as a white person I still can't fathom why a black man is still going to take offense to being called "boy" in this day and age. I know what the insult is supposed to infer, but just because someone refers to you as "boy" doesn't mean it's racial. My father to this day still calls me boy at times, and yes, I'm white, but this is 2009 for crying out loud. None of you have ever been slaves.

To me, the type of black person that gets offended by the word "boy" is the black equivalent of a redneck.

In that same token a white person trying to use it as a racial insult is clearly an ignorant redneck and/or white trash.

Again, I want to go back to the fact that making everything about being black and white is just making the issue worse, and part of me is irritated that I'm the one who brought this up, but I know where this discussion is headed (not infering anything towards you, RBP, but I know the guys on this board well enough to know where they're going to take this. Just wait for Rasheed1 to jump in and add his 2 cents).

The fact is, standing up for it as a racial term towards black people is just another form of segregation in itself.

We need to stop looking at these things as black or white issues, and just start pointing out the reality of the situation. There's too much hate and racism in the world.

If you want to hate on something, hate on someone doing something stupid. They deserve it. Don't hate on someone for their class, religion, or color.

Mathius

I shared a tear.

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's not necessarily racial.

[Mathius]

It's not necessarily racial.

Well, the ref in question is black, so I have to guess that he knew the racial connotation of the word. Also, I don't see Vince getting this offended if it was just used as a term of an inferior.

So if the ref did just simply mean to put Vince down, inferring that VC was inferior, i.e. a child, I still don't see how it was reasonable for VC to react that way considering some of the things we've seen lately that players say to referees.

Mathius

[kidachi]

maybe he sounded gay.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well, the ref in question is black, so I have to guess that he knew the racial connotation of the word. Also, I don't see Vince getting this offended if it was just used as a term of an inferior.

So if the ref did just simply mean to put Vince down, inferring that VC was inferior, i.e. a child, I still don't see how it was reasonable for VC to react that way considering some of the things we've seen lately that players say to referees.

Mathius

The fact that the ref is black lessens the chances that this was a racial comment. He could just be referring to Carter as "boy" due to the difference in perceived age/maturity.

[Mathius]

The fact that the ref is black lessens the chances that this was a racial comment. He could just be referring to Carter as "boy" due to the difference in perceived age/maturity.

Like I said, if that is the case, then why does VC overreact? Players taunt refs all the time. There's plenty of videos of this to be found on youtube.

I disagree that him being black lessens the chances. Because the way I see it, the ref knows the racial connotation, so if he's going to use a phrase like that, it wouldn't be unless he meant it that way, because if he uses it, he obviously has a good chance of dealing with THIS situation.

In other words, if he didn't mean it, he would have saved himself the trouble. I could be wrong.

I think if it were a white dude, there's at least a chance that he's not thinking it's a racial term. I think the way some black people react to it, there's no doubt a black person would know it could be taken that way.

Mathius

[RainierBeachPoet]

we dont know the tone of the comments. it could still be racial even if it is from another black man. it is not a surprise that people of the same color can be prejudiced against their own race

of course it could have been just a pejorative tone.

race and feelings of being disrespected are emotional issues; we cannot intellectually tell ourselves what is offensive and not when it hits the heart


and we dont know what vince might have said to incite the term. but it was certainly out of character for him to go off like he did so there probably was something to it


one way or the other: given the history of the usage of the word and the racial context within which we live, it was, at best, imprudent for the ref to use the term, and at worse, bigoted. my guess is the former.

a side note but not unrelated: i hate it when refs think themselves bigger than the game and affect the game by throwing out guys out of THEIR OWN emotions. the nets might have won this game if carter played more than 15 minutes...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Or maybe, being a black man like Carter, Stafford doesn't have anything against black people, and is just using it in a non-racial context? I don't see how all of what you put there can be read into it. It's possible, but definitely not the only possibility.

[Sonic R]

It was rather a strange happening… Carter was arguing with the official and he got t'ed up, then Carter continued to go off verbally as the official quickly t'ed him up again and pointed to the locker room (signifying the ejection from the contest).

Carter got aggressively physical, his teammates had to hold him back at that point… At first he had an altercation with on the the Pistons players (Prince?) but it appeared more geared to the official. I personally don't think Vince should have been ejected… I couldn't really tell what was being said - I'm very unskilled at the art of reading lips… Other than Prince inquiring about the situation, Carter frustration didn't seem to target the Pistons beyond what he felt may have been questionable officiating and with out knowing the scope of the words exchanved, I don't see the warranting of an ejection at that point, two techs for inquiring about the officiating? Sheed should be ejected from every game in the first quarter if thats whats going to happen (funny Sheed left this game in the first half)

EDIT
upon doing research on Rasheed, There is a rumor that Carter had contact (headbutt) with the official, but the official is saying that there was no contact. So rumors appear to be false about any allege contact…

[Mathius]

one way or the other: given the history of the usage of the word and the racial context within which we live, it was, at best, imprudent for the ref to use the term, and at worse, bigoted. my guess is the former.

Which was the point I was trying to make, but I think you put it better. The ref is black. I can't believe he wouldn't be aware of that particular usage of the word. In that regard, I think he wouldn't have used it, unless he was prepared for it to be accepted that way.

That's also why I think it's MORE likely that this is the case, given that the ref is black. I don't believe for a second he didn't think VC could take it that way. Especially given that the ref is older than VC, which is usually a sign of growing up in less tolerable times.

Add that to VC's apparent reaction, and I think that is probably what happened. But again, I could be wrong.

And I'm not saying the ref is racist either. But you don't have to be racist to want to use a racist term just to hurt someone.

a side note but not unrelated: i hate it when refs think themselves bigger than the game and affect the game by throwing out guys out of THEIR OWN emotions. the nets might have won this game if carter played more than 15 minutes...

I agree. That's why I am so adamantly against the NBA's policy that you can't talk about the refereeing in interviews.

There are no checks and balances for the referees. There is whatever the league office holds them to, but they have shown over the years that they are completely bias and are going to do whatever they have to to protect their refs.

That's like asking an NBA fan to give an objective opinion about their teams #1 star player.

Not gonna happen 99% of the time.

Mathius

[3stat2]

As one of you mentioned, I don't think the ref intended the word's racial meaning. It doesn't make sense. Why does chewbacca live with munchkins on that planet? It just doesn't make sense.

In the heat of the moment in a game like this, athletes don't have time to stop and think about exactly what stuff means. I think the ref had no racial intentions with the word, he just happened to use it. Could've said 'son, mate, buddy', whatever, but out of chance he used the word 'boy'.

And maybe because of something that's happened to Vince personally in the past, that word happened to strike a nerve with Vince - leading to an overt instinctive reaction. If a black guy said that to Vince at the mall or something, you might not get the same reaction because his blood isn't rushing from playing a physical game and his head is clear.

But in the heat of the moment in an NBA game, players don't necessarily stop and think. Even one word can have unintended consequences, and that appears to be the case here.

Of course, I'm not Vince or the ref. The story could swing both ways.

[picc84]

'Boy' from anyone but your parents or relatives is insulting whether its racial or not.

[Mathius]

'Boy' from anyone but your parents or relatives is insulting whether its racial or not.

Insulting enough to warrant getting yourself thrown out of a game and ranting to other players who apparently according to Sonic R didn't really understand what was going on either?

Mathius