Kobe has a strong case over Bird in the all-time list

[305Baller]

Bird all day.

[Faptastrophe]

[Pushxx]

Bird played when competition was at its highest ever in the NBA...

[OldSchoolBBall]

3 straight MVP's says otherwise. So does Bird's 7 top 2 MVP finishes in 8 straight years (and 8 top 3 finishes in 9 years) before he obliterated his back.

[IGOTGAME]

3 straight MVP's says otherwise...

does it? I have them on the same tier.

[StateOfMind12]

3 straight MVP's says otherwise...

MVPs should never be determined who is greater or better. If this were the case, why isn't Moses Malone compared to Bird more often? They both have 3 MVPs. Why isn't Nash considered better or greater than Kobe or Shaq, after all Nash has 2 times more MVPs than those two do. Why isn't Rose considered better or greater than Wade? Rose is the one with the MVP while Wade does not have one. Using who has more MVPs to determine who is greater is a weak argument.

[Maneva]

It's definitely a debate, and anyone acting all shocked by this is just in denial. Personally I'd still go with Bird, but only slightly, and Kobe's still got some left in the tank so that could change.

I agree that you can't use such stats to make this argument, but I've got to point out how funny it is that in every Kobe hate thread or Kobe comparison thread so many similar stats are thrown around to show how Kobe's not as good (and people take the stats seriously), but then when they actually favor Kobe all of a sudden there are a ton of posts on how unreliable stats are. Not that anyone in this thread is being hypocritical, but that's pretty odd.

[OldSchoolBBall]

MVPs should never be determined who is greater or better. If this were the case, why isn't Moses Malone compared to Bird more often? They both have 3 MVPs. Why isn't Nash considered better or greater than Kobe or Shaq, after all Nash has 2 times more MVPs than those two do. Why isn't Rose considered better or greater than Wade? Rose is the one with the MVP while Wade does not have one. Using who has more MVPs to determine who is greater is a weak argument.

Sorry, but winning 3 straight MVP's and finishing top 2 in MVP voting 7 times in 8 years and top 3 in voting 8 times in 9 years clearly shows that he is better than Kobe and deserves to be ranked above him all-time. As does the fact that he was getting lots of GOAT praise in the mid-80's; Kobe has never been close to that level, really.

[rhythmic]

3 straight MVP's says otherwise. So does Bird's 7 top 2 MVP finishes in 8 straight years (and 8 top 3 finishes in 9 years) before he obliterated his back.

I guess Steve Nash is better then Kobe too.
If Kobe has another 27/5/5 season, I am taking him over Bird.
People keep forgetting to adjust pace when comparing stats between two players who played in completely different times.

[OldSchoolBBall]

MVP voting finishes from age 23-31 (when Bird destroyed his back and was never the same player again):

Bird:

4
2
2
2
1
1
1
3
2

Kobe:

5
3
5
N/A (didn't even rank in the top 15)
4
3
1
2
3

You might think that's close based on numbers, but really it isn't - there is a large difference between finishing top 2 versus top 3-5. Large.

[AlexanderRight]

KB24 has a case for top 3 G.O.A.T. son.

[rhythmic]

Sorry, but winning 3 straight MVP's and finishing top 2 in MVP voting 7 times in 8 years and top 3 in voting 8 times in 9 years clearly shows that he is better than Kobe and deserves to be ranked above him all-time. As does the fact that he was getting lots of GOAT praise in the mid-80's; Kobe has never been close to that level, really.

So context is irrelevant?

[rhythmic]

MVP voting finishes from age 23-31 (when Bird destroyed his back and was never the same player again):

Bird:

4
2
2
2
1
1
1
3
2

Kobe:

5
3
5
N/A (didn't even rank in the top 15)
4
3
1
2
3

You might think that's close based on numbers, but really it isn't - there is a large difference between finishing top 2 versus top 3-5. Large.

So, you're not going to mention their roles, right?
I'd love to see Bird getting all those MVP votes playing along-side Shaq for half of his career, wasting his athletic prime being a 2nd option.

The N/A is because of his injuries; nice way to try and twist shit around like Kobe was just terrible that year.

[StateOfMind12]

Sorry, but winning 3 straight MVP's and finishing top 2 in MVP voting 7 times in 8 years and top 3 in voting 8 times in 9 years clearly shows that he is better than Kobe and deserves to be ranked above him all-time. As does the fact that he was getting lots of GOAT praise in the mid-80's; Kobe has never been close to that level, really.

No it doesn't. I already told you why using MVPs to determine rankings is pointless and holds no weight. The MVP is an award that is given by the opinion of other people. You are pretty much basing your opinion on Bird being better based on other peoples' opinion.

[tpols]

Sorry, but winning 3 straight MVP's and finishing top 2 in MVP voting 7 times in 8 years and top 3 in voting 8 times in 9 years clearly shows that he is better than Kobe and deserves to be ranked above him all-time. As does the fact that he was getting lots of GOAT praise in the mid-80's; Kobe has never been close to that level, really.

This is a stupid argument. You can say Shaq cant be ranked over bird than using this same logic. And you didn't answer anything in the post you replied to. MVPs aren't the end all be all.

And LOL at GOAT praise when Kobe has drawn extremely high praise[near GOAT at times] but in his case you just dismiss it.