I really respect Dirk and Duncan now

[IBLEEDGREEN20]

dirk is the man

[Harison]

Please explain
.
He is the greatest Euro player? The NBA is still considered the best accolade on any athlete's resume right. He is the best/greatest ever European player

Sabonis was a better player than Dirk, few other EU players can claim that as well. NBA is definitely huge, but its not be-all end-all. Just because one plays almost all his career in NBA doesnt automatically make him better. If Hakeem would have dominated EU instead, would you consider him a worse player than Dirk?

[Sarcastic]

Let's not act like Duncan wasn't one of the main reasons the Spurs have been contending for titles. No Duncan = no titles.

Exactly. Which is why I always say the player is more important than the franchise, and size of market is irrelevant when people try to bring up small market vs big market debates.

[dirkdiggler41]

dirk is the man

I agree, he even took a paycut (20mill if I remeber correctly)

[Pinkhearts]

Why no love for Kobe? He stuck with his team too.

Yeah too many haters for him eh.

[redsoxballer]

Ducan, Dirk, Pierce, Nash, and Kobe are all respectable for sticking with their franchises, even when some of them (Suns and Mavs) failed to bring in the right pieces.

[ginobli2311]

Why no love for Kobe? He stuck with his team too.

Yeah too many haters for him eh.

hard to give kobe props for that when he's been on a top 2 team in the league now in 12 of his 15 years in the league.

8 years with prime shaq and having the greatest coach ever at your side for almost your entire prime as well.

sorry, hard to give him props for staying.

[Harison]

yep.

and there is nothing wrong with that. duncan stayed because they built well around him. kobe did the same thing in the summer before 08. why should kobe waste some of his best years on bad teams? makes no sense.

That means you dont consider loyalty a good thing, some may view it differently, starting with OP of this thread. Personally I think it depends on situation, its better if player carries franchise to the fame on his shoulders, like MJ did. But if front office is really bad and you see no hope, its fine to leave after some years too.

only tim duncan and hakeem have won as superstars really without that.

Premier examples would be Barry and Dream, what Duncan accomplished is definitely impressive just not on that level.

[ginobli2311]

That means you dont consider loyalty a good thing, some may view it differently, starting with OP of this thread. Personally I think it depends on situation, its better if player carries franchise to the fame on his shoulders, like MJ did. But if front office is really bad and you see no hope, its fine to leave after some years too.


Premier examples would be Barry and Dream, what Duncan accomplished is definitely impressive just not on that level.

duncan in 03 was about as impressive as hakeem. barry might be on a different level than both of them really.

i do value loyalty. but i don't blame players. that is my point. we can't have it both ways. we can't praise dirk for being loyal.....and the turn around and hammer him for not winning titles. it doesn't work that way. like i posted above.....in the last 31 years, only hakeem/duncan/jordan have won titles without having an all-nba teammate. and pippen was clearly elite in 91 even though he didn't make the team.

so i think its great dirk stayed loyal, but his legacy would have been better if he left to go join paul pierce in boston or something in 2003. because those guys would have won titles.

[creepingdeath]

Why no love for Kobe? He stuck with his team too.

Yeah too many haters for him eh.

Maybe because he wanted out and put a gun to the fo's chest? Has nothing to do with hating.. It's not that I don't get why Kobe wanted out, but the fact still remains.

[kabalcage]

Players like Dirk and Duncan are patient enough to allow their respective teams to actually build around them.

LeBron was a total prick and just started demanding things in which the Cavs organization obliged. Without the ability to stay patient, the Cavs made moves that had "quick fix" written all over them. They could never truly build around LeBron because he wasn't committed to them, and everybody in the league knew it. That's probably why Ray Allen never signed with the Cavs because he knew that he'd be stuck with Cleveland after LeBron left.

Unfortunately these are our superstars. So when you invest the money to buy season tickets to see these guys; keep in mind they may not be there if there's an opportunity to move. I've lost the trust of nearly all the guys in the NBA. If I hear Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant want to join the Lakers when possible, I'll totally believe it and expect it now.

[ginobli2311]

Players like Dirk and Duncan are patient enough to allow their respective teams to actually build around them.

LeBron was a total prick and just started demanding things in which the Cavs organization obliged. Without the ability to stay patient, the Cavs made moves that had "quick fix" written all over them. They could never truly build around LeBron because he wasn't committed to them, and everybody in the league knew it. That's probably why Ray Allen never signed with the Cavs because he knew that he'd be stuck with Cleveland after LeBron left.

Unfortunately these are our superstars. So when you invest the money to buy season tickets to see these guys; keep in mind they may not be there if there's an opportunity to move. I've lost the trust of nearly all the guys in the NBA. If I hear Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant want to join the Lakers when possible, I'll totally believe it and expect it now.

part of that is true.

the bigger part and reality is that no free agents want to play for the cavs...even with lebron there. bosh said this. he refused to join lebron in cleveland.

i've seen this happen in dallas man. we couldn't even land rashard lewis...and he's from dallas. its a lot harder than you think.

the spurs got extremely lucky on a number of fronts. one is that they had robinson and duncan right off the bat. the other is that their draft picks (parker/manu) turned out to be top 25 or better players in the league.

sorry, its a lot harder than you think. lebron put pressure on the cavs to win. and they did the best they could i guess....but that is the point....the best of the cavs just isn't good enough.

[Harison]

duncan in 03 was about as impressive as hakeem. barry might be on a different level than both of them really..

You are Duncan fan, so I understand why you think this, but objectively Duncan had very solid team (even without an All-star teammate) and HOF coaching, and faced weaker competition than Dream on the way, so its not the same level.

so i think its great dirk stayed loyal, but his legacy would have been better if he left to go join paul pierce in boston or something in 2003. because those guys would have won titles.

I agree, but it depends. Should have KG left sooner? Sure. Would it be better if Jordan with Bird instead of bringing Bulls/Celtics to the glory just joined Magic on the Lakers? Not really, no. Recent controversy with Lebron is an example how NOT to handle it. Even more recent example with Deron is another disgrace.

[ginobli2311]

You are Duncan fan, so I understand why you think this, but objectively Duncan had very solid team (even without an All-star teammate) and HOF coaching, and faced weaker competition than Dream on the way, so its not the same level.


I agree, but it depends. Should have KG left sooner? Sure. Would it be better if Jordan with Bird instead of bringing Bulls/Celtics to the glory just joined Magic on the Lakers? Not really, no. Recent controversy with Lebron is an example how NOT to handle it. Even more recent example with Deron is another disgrace.

agree to disagree about duncan. he beat the the kobe/shaq lakers coming off of a three peat. i don't see the difference at all. both team didn't have a 2nd guy. and both teams had unproven young players and a few vets.

maxwell/horry/thorpe/smith/cassell/elie

parker/jackson/manu/rose/robinson/bowen (keep in mind that parker and manu and jackson and bowen were not even half the players they would become)

how these players handle this is different from the end result. i totally agree. but shaq left orlando and you don't hear an blip about that ever. and winning cures all of this.

[knightfall88]

I don't disrespect Melo or Kobe for what they did. I do however have a problem with Lebron deceiving the Cavs and leaving them with nothing. If he demanded a trade publicly, Cavs may have made more moves OR the Cavs may have had the chance to trade him.