Nash, JK, GP. Who's the better PG? Player?

[Glove_20]

Oh I know, but I just like Kidd and thats how its gonna be...gotta problem with that?

As long as I know that Payton is better and you know that you have no arguments for Kidd

Then its ok

[DeuceWallaces]

Then you can't really say defense matters either for Pure PG skill.

Pure PG- Passing/Playmaking...And for the rest, just do it "solid". Make sure it doesn't "hurt" the team. Make sure you defense doesn't hurt or your shooting doesn't hurt the team. Kidd's shooting hurts

But every basketball player should be able to defend, although you can make an argument that every position should be able to shoot except PG.

So a Pure PG could include passing/playmaking, leadership, defense and not shooting.

[Derek]

Payton's efficiency during prime(1994-95 through 2002-03)- 22.89

Kidd's efficiency during prime(1995-96 through 2003-04)- 21.42


Game, set, and match- Payton

[Kblaze8855]

Shooting percentage isnt offense. Kidd "hurt" his team all the way to 2 finals and another conference finals after replacing a 24/8 point who shot better than him on the way to 26 wins. And that much better scoring point went to Kidds 50+ win team and led it to the lottery. Your point guards PPG and shooting percentage is not a measure of his impact on the offense.

Id rather have Kidd replacing the starting point than Payton on the...

Nuggets
Cavs
Lakers
Suns
Hawks
Wizards
Warriors


And a few others but dont feel like putting much time into it.

Or this really. Talking to you about Payton is pointless. Might as well be talking to his little brother or something. Think what you want. Doesnt bother me.

[Glove_20]

Let me add more to Payton's side

Everybody talks about how Kidd is such a good playmaker. But Payton was too. He actually lead the league in total assists once.
And he was one of the least TO prone PGs ever.


Payton's Prime Ast:TO ratio was actually HIGHER than Kidd's Ast:TO ratio in his prime


That goes into the playmaking books on Payton's side

[Glove_20]

Shooting percentage isnt offense. Kidd "hurt" his team all the way to 2 finals and another conference finals after replacing a 24/8 point who shot better than him on the way to 26 wins. And that much better scoring point went to Kidds 50+ win team and led it to the lottery. Your point guards PPG and shooting percentage is not a measure of his impact on the offense.

Id rather have Kidd replacing the starting point than Payton on the...

Nuggets
Cavs
Lakers
Suns
Hawks
Wizards
Warriors


And a few others but dont feel like putting much time into it.

Or this really. Talking to you about Payton is pointless. Might as well be talking to his little brother or something. Think what you want. Doesnt bother me.

Notice how your the only one who is arguing for Kidd, and are running out of arguments...Good time to leave



I am not going "I think this" "I think that"...I am backing myself up, isn't that what I am supposed to do?


So it doesn't matter if you PG shoots 40% or 50%? That makes no difference at all?

Good one. Yeah, Sun's offense would still be as good if Nash shot in the low 40s and put 13ppg and had a inconsistent jumper



Um, if someone on your team shoots 40%, he brings the whole team's % down. That is NOT a good thing. Its really common sense. I'd want my PG to help out my team's shooting % when he tries to score not hurt it

Which team hasn't been better without Marbury?

[Glove_20]

Now every team need might be a different story. But in most cases, you'd want GP


And at least there is no doubt on who is the better player or PG...So I'm ok

[Kblaze8855]

You are among the most unintentionally funny people ive encountered. I thank you for that. Now I will get back to fleeing your towering intellect.

[Glove_20]

You are among the most unintentionally funny people ive encountered. I thank you for that. Now I will get back to fleeing your towering intellect.

And your one of the most intentional funny people I have encountered. This post and the ones above are examples. It was intentionally supposed to be funny right?
:)

[Rameek]

Shooting percentage isnt offense. Kidd "hurt" his team all the way to 2 finals and another conference finals after replacing a 24/8 point who shot better than him on the way to 26 wins. And that much better scoring point went to Kidds 50+ win team and led it to the lottery. Your point guards PPG and shooting percentage is not a measure of his impact on the offense.

Marbury didnt play with the same team that Kidd did... Marbury didnt play with the same Suns team as Nash did

[Kblaze8855]

Kidd just had Newman and Steven Jackson switched out with a rookie 9ppg Jefferson and getting Kittles back. Those are not changes to justify a 26 win to 50+ and the finals difference. In Phoenix he didnt have Cliff and rodney like Kidd had but he got Penny back for 80 games after he missed the whole season with Kidd. Again....that should not be the difference between lottery and 50+ wins. But its an old issue. Was talked about a lot on ISH when it happened.

[Glove_20]

Marbury didnt play with the same team that Kidd did... Marbury didnt play with the same Suns team as Nash did

KBlaze just doesn't know what he is talking about.


Its just dumb. Wow, Kidd improved the Nets after MARBURY left. Um, which team didn't improve after Marbury left?

Or, shooting %s and don't affect your offense at all. Here is his quote:

"point guards PPG and shooting percentage is not a measure of his impact on the offense."

Um ok, so it won't make a difference at all for the Net's if Kidd could 25ppg and shoot 50%. Yep, thats just as good as 13ppg and 40%

And low %s according to KBlaze don't hurt your offense at all...LOL...Um, thats common sense, of course they hurt your team's %s...






Payton is a better defender. A MUCH better scorer. And very low TO Prone (A need for a PG), so low TO prone that his Assist:TO ratio is better than Kidd's...What more could you want? Oh also, Payton's offenses are at the tops in the league, while Kidd's usually aren't. Part of the reaosn is Kidd isn't a good half-court PG...So there is so much upside for Payton at PG


I don't know why ISH posters think KBlaze is all that great. Everytime I see him he is always looking for "excuses" to flee an argument even though the other poster is being objective and using arguments...I mean I could understand leaving if the other poster was saying
"You are wrong, I wont listen to you"...But KBlaze obviously doesn't know what he is talking about so he leaves

[IceMan2]

KBlaze just doesn't know what he is talking about.


Its just dumb. Wow, Kidd improved the Nets after MARBURY left. Um, which team didn't improve after Marbury left?

Or, shooting %s and don't affect your offense at all. Here is his quote:



Um ok, so it won't make a difference at all for the Net's if Kidd could 25ppg and shoot 50%. Yep, thats just as good as 13ppg and 40%

And low %s according to KBlaze don't hurt your offense at all...LOL...Um, thats common sense, of course they hurt your team's %s...






Payton is a better defender. A MUCH better scorer. And very low TO Prone (A need for a PG), so low TO prone that his Assist:TO ratio is better than Kidd's...What more could you want? Oh also, Payton's offenses are at the tops in the league, while Kidd's usually aren't. Part of the reaosn is Kidd isn't a good half-court PG...So there is so much upside for Payton at PG


I don't know why ISH posters think KBlaze is all that great. Everytime I see him he is always looking for "excuses" to flee an argument even though the other poster is being objective and using arguments...I mean I could understand leaving if the other poster was saying
"You are wrong, I wont listen to you"...But KBlaze obviously doesn't know what he is talking about so he leaves

I kinda agree

[wang4three]

Scoring from the PG role is a bit overrated. It's nice to have, but I wouldn't want to look at it as an option. I'd take Kidd over Payton if I were to start a team. Payton's defense isn't overwhelmingly better in my opinion to warrant taking Kidd over him. Kidd's overwhelmingly better playmaking is enough for me to take him over Payton. As for the AST:TO ratio, I don't really take those to heart unless it's below one. Rarely does Kidd turns it over when it counts and in the waning moments of the game he's as clutch as Payton.

As for Nash, I've become a fan of recent, but three years of great play doesn't even put him in the same category in my mind.

[Kblaze8855]

"You are wrong, I wont listen to you"...But KBlaze obviously doesn't know what he is talking about so he leaves

No...I stop because im talking to you about Gary Payton. which is just pointless. You and Gary, Fab and Dirk, and a few people and Kobe are just not worth taking time to talk to on the issue. There have been very very few people who go into all that "He just dont know what hes talking about" **** with me and the yare all people like you. Crazy over the top bias towards a player. Off the top of my head you are the 4th. First was Madefromdust who believed Tony Parker was better than AI back in like 02. AAP who has a deep personal obsession with Kobe. Then Fab who believes Dirk is better than Bird. And You...who seem to worship Gary Payton.

All of you have so heavily invested yourselves into the defense or hatred of a player that extended discussion with them on that player is simply not worth it. You have proven this to me a number of times. The first time when I saw I needed to block you was after you claimed Zo was only a great defender for 2 seasons(among the dumbest things said in sports fan history) because he was compared to Payton. I eventually forgot why I had you blocked and unblocked you. Only to have you call me a dumb because you cant read yesterday. Resulting in you deleting your own posts and saying youre lucky nobody quoted you to prove that idiocy ever came from you. And then today....I dont know what im talking about because again....you look so hard for Payton hatred you take "I wouldnt put him next to a ball dominating point" to mean "Gary Payton is a ball dominating point" and call me ignorant for being wrong about an issue you made up in your head.

And you really have to wonder why I dont pay attention to your "points"? every time I fool myself into thinking you might have something to say im blindsided by a level of bias few could ever approach. Ive been on here for 6 seasons and talked to smarter people than you who actually knew the game about much harder points to make than a hall of fame point like Jason Kidd being better in some situations than another HOF point in Gary Payton. And thats ignoring the fact that I said Payton is a better overall player.

The reason I dont find you worth my time often is because I dont come here to argue with people who dont care about reality as much as the players they love or hate.

"Gary Payton outplayed MJ in the finals"

"Gary Payton is the only winner on the level of Shaq and Duncan"

"Gary Payton is inarguably a much better defender than Zo in his prime"

"Gary Payton is better than _____ "

"The Heat need Gary Payton to ____"

Gary Payton, Gary Payton, Gary Payton.

If I wanted to deal with a single minded repetitious parrot id go buy a parrot and teach it to sing the Chilis baby back ribs song over and over. At least I could get a laugh out of it.

Because this **** doesnt bother me if its funny. But at some point unintentional humor gets old. You watch a guy fall down a hill its gonna stop being funny eventually. Feel like ive been watching you roll down a hill for months. I just cant keep watching. Only reason to even keep glancing is to see if the grass stains match the green in your Payton throwback you probably never take off.

But even that has lost my interest.

Do what you do. I dont need to be involved. I'll just go back to having you blocked. Maybe in a month or two ill check to see if you have reached the bottom of the hill yet.