Prime Kevin Garnett = Best PF of all Time?

[GS1905]

Agreed. Lol @ Duncan's teammates being like KG's teammates. KG was basically playing with bunch of scrubs. That wasn't the case with Duncan. He had good role players.

Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, Parker and Ginobili were all good role players. Let's not act like Duncan won it all by himself.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Duncan was clearly the best player in the league in 2003, imo, but he got more help than KG. He didn't have a consistent second option night in and night out, but he had a deep team with a lot of different guys who stepped up when they needed to, played defense and more often than not, he had a teammate score 20+ during that run. Jackson, Bowen, Parker, Ginobili, Rose and Robinson all made notable contributions during that run. Look at the Spurs 4 wins in the Lakers series(the best team they faced) and tell me he didn't have teammates stepping up, in particular, Bowen's defense on Kobe was a huge factor.

Not to take anything away from Tim, he had one of he greatest playoff runs ever and he did have to carry that team quite a bit, but nobody wins titles alone and he's no exception.

[GS1905]

Duncan was clearly the best player in the league in 2003, imo, but he got more help than KG. He didn't have a consistent second option night in and night out, but he had a deep team with a lot of different guys who stepped up when they needed to, played defense and more often than not, he had a teammate score 20+ during that run. Jackson, Bowen, Parker, Ginobili, Rose and Robinson all made notable contributions during that run. Look at the Spurs 4 wins in the Lakers series(the best team they faced) and tell me he didn't have teammates stepping up, in particular, Bowen's defense on Kobe was a huge factor.

Not to take anything away from Tim, he had one of he greatest playoff runs ever and he did have to carry that team quite a bit, but nobody wins titles alone and he's no exception.

Agreed. I'm sick of people acting like Duncan won it all by himself. No one is saying he didn't carry his team but acting like he has done it all by himself is just stupid.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Agreed. Lol @ Duncan's teammates being like KG's teammates. KG was basically playing with bunch of scrubs. That wasn't the case with Duncan. He had good role players.

Stephen Jackson, Malik Rose, Parker and Ginobili were all good role players. Let's not act like Duncan won it all by himself.

Parker was a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody.

There was no other all-star on the Spurs other than Duncan himself that season.

How much better do you really think his teammates actually was compared to Garnett's?

[GS1905]

Parker was a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody.

There was no other all-star on the Spurs other than Duncan himself that season.

How much better do you really think his teammates actually was compared to Garnett's?

I didn't say Duncan had star players. I said good role players. Parker averaged around 15 points in the finals that year. Admiral and Jackson both put up 10+ in the finals too. Then he had Malik Rose and Ginobili who put up close to 10 points a game.

This is just the offensive side of the game tho. On the defensive end pretty much every Spurs player was decent. You have guys like Bowen who helped defending Kobe or Malik Rose who helped defending Shaq, etc. I can't believe you're seriously arguing about Duncan's teammates being as crappy as KG's teammates.

[chips93]

Prime Tim Duncan was better. Tim Duncan showed everyone in 02-03 that he was not the best PF in the league but the greatest power forward ever.

The Admiral in his final season on his last legs. Manu a rookie who came off the bench and did very little. Malik Rose getting major minutes, along with Stephen Jackson when he was a nobody. Tony Parker a second year PG with deer in the headlights syndrome in the playoffs. Duncan led that crew to a title. Duncan led them past the 3-peat Lakers, going for 37/16 on the Lakers own home court to finish them off. He then almost had a quadruple double in the last game of the finals, going for 21 points, 20 boards, 10 dimes and 8 blocks. Meanwhile, the guy he was guarding, K-Mart, went 3-19 for 6 points. It doesn't get much more dominating than that.

Did KG ever do that in his prime or anything remotely similar?

pretty much this

i know that kg does all of his antics becasue of a love of the game, and not just to draw attention to himself . . . buuuuuut if kg was as attention grabbing as kg, then this wouldnt even be a discussion

[ThaSwagg3r]

Parker averaged around 15 points in the finals that year.

He also shot 39% and all those players you listed could thank their points to Tim Duncan.

Admiral and Jackson both put up 10+ in the finals too. Then you had Malik Rose and Ginobili who put up close to 10 points a game.

So does that mean he has a great supporting cast now? Nice, he got one other player scoring over 10 points a game and two other players scoring close to 10 a game. Pretty damn stacked team.

I can play this stupid game too....

In the 2002 playoffs, KG had two other teammates scoring over 20 ppg, one other teammate scoring over 10 ppg, and one player scoring close to 10 ppg.

Billups scored 22 ppg, Wally S. scored 20 ppg, Rasho scored over 10 ppg, and Anthony peeler scored close to 10 ppg.

Using your logic, Garnett had a pretty good supporting cast in 2002.

This is just the offensive side of the game tho. On the defensive end pretty much every Spurs player was decent. You have guys like Bowen who helped defending Kobe or Malik Rose who helped defending Shaq, etc.

And who was their anchor defensively? Tim Duncan. The defense starts and ends with him. He was a great pick n roll defender back in those days, he was obviously a great shot blocker, and he was a great post-defender.

I can't believe you're seriously arguing about Duncan's teammates being as crappy as KG's teammates.

Garnett's teammates were worse but not by a big margin. If you think it was by a significant amount you are either kidding yourself or you don't know what you're talking about. It's looking like the latter of the two.

[kaiiu]

current Dirk> Prime KG

[DMAVS41]

He also shot 39% and all those players you listed could thank their points to Tim Duncan.

So does that mean he has a great supporting cast now? Nice, he got one other player scoring over 10 points a game and two other players scoring close to 10 a game. Pretty damn stacked team.

I can play this stupid game too....

In the 2002 playoffs, KG had two other teammates scoring over 20 ppg, one other teammate scoring over 10 ppg, and one player scoring close to 10 ppg.

Billups scored 22 ppg, Wally S. scored 20 ppg, Rasho scored over 10 ppg, and Anthony peeler scored close to 10 ppg.

Using your logic, Garnett had a pretty good supporting cast in 2002.


And who was their anchor defensively? Tim Duncan. The defense starts and ends with him. He was a great pick n roll defender back in those days, he was obviously a great shot blocker, and he was a great post-defender.


Garnett's teammates were worse but not by a big margin. If you think it was by a significant amount you are either kidding yourself or you don't know what you're talking about. It's looking like the latter of the two.

Yea...kind of agree with this. By the arguments people are presenting here...then KG's 02 team was pretty damn good. He definitely got a lot of help against the Mavs. He had players step up and make big plays...etc. And they got swept in the first round and KG was not the best player in the series.

If we are going to start acting like Duncan's 03 title isn't special, then those same people better hammer KG for getting his ass swept in 02 with plenty of help to at least make the series competitive....which it wasn't by the way.

Just for fun:

KG's help in 02:

Billups 22/5/6
Wally 20/7/2
Rasho 11/7/1
Peeler 9/4/1
Trent 6/3
Smith 4/4

Duncan's help in 03:

Parker 15/3/4
Jackson 13/4/3
Manu 9/4/3
Rose 9/6/1
Robinson 8/7/1
Bowen 7/3/2
Claxton 5/2/2


Obviously Duncan had more help defensively and had the better team, but KG had some quality players as well and its not a night and day difference or anything. And again, the results could not be more different. Duncan led his team to the title. KG couldn't even win a game in the first round.

[GS1905]

He also shot 39% and all those players you listed could thank their points to Tim Duncan.

So does that mean he has a great supporting cast now? Nice, he got one other player scoring over 10 points a game and two other players scoring close to 10 a game. Pretty damn stacked team.

I can play this stupid game too....

In the 2002 playoffs, KG had two other teammates scoring over 20 ppg, one other teammate scoring over 10 ppg, and one player scoring close to 10 ppg.

Billups scored 22 ppg, Wally S. scored 20 ppg, Rasho scored over 10 ppg, and Anthony peeler scored close to 10 ppg.

Using your logic, Garnett had a pretty good supporting cast in 2002.


And who was their anchor defensively? Tim Duncan. The defense starts and ends with him. He was a great pick n roll defender back in those days, he was obviously a great shot blocker, and he was a great post-defender.


Garnett's teammates were worse but not by a big margin. If you think it was by a significant amount you are either kidding yourself or you don't know what you're talking about. It's looking like the latter of the two.

Why are you acting like I said Duncan is a bad player or something? I know Duncan was their best player and that he carried the Spurs. I'm not arguing against anything like that. I also never said anything like Duncan had a good supporting cast. All I was saying is KG had a worse supporting cast. I didn't say anything about Duncan's supporting cast other than comparing it to KG's supporting cast. I said Duncan's teammates were better than Kg's. That's all. Don't make up stuff to prove your point.

What I'm saying is prime KG > prime Duncan and KG's supporting cast and coaching was worse than Duncan's and that's why you can't blame KG for not winning.

[RRR3]

No way. Duncan was always better. I'll take Dirk, Charles Barkley, and maybe Karl Malone over him too.

[RRR3]

I think you can argue Garnettt had the best peak for any power forward ever, but Duncan for sure has had a better career and some others (Barkley, K. Malone maybe) have arguments as well.

[G.O.A.T]

In 2002 Garnett had the following teammates...

A 24-year old All-Star wing
A 25-year old PG who would win Finals MVP in two years
A 26-year old former #1 overall pick at PF who averaged 15 and 8 for his career to that point
A 25-year old center who would later win a title alongside Duncan
Four solid rotation guys in Anthony Peeler, Marc Jackson, Gary Trent and Sam Mitchell.

That's plenty enough talent to contend.

They struggled in close games though 9-10 for the season in games decided by four points or less or in overtime. Then they got swept in the playoffs and ended the season losing 16 of their last 25 games.

[GS1905]

I think you can argue Garnettt had the best peak for any power forward ever, but Duncan for sure has had a better career and some others (Barkley, K. Malone maybe) have arguments as well.

I totally agree. I think Duncan is the GOAT PF if you consider everything like rings, finals MVP, normal season MVP, stats, etc. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying KG at his best was better than Duncan at his best.

[DMAVS41]

In 2002 Garnett had the following teammates...

A 24-year old All-Star wing
A 25-year old PG who would win Finals MVP in two years
A 26-year old former #1 overall pick at PF who averaged 15 and 8 for his career to that point
A 25-year old center who would later win a title alongside Duncan
Four solid rotation guys in Anthony Peeler, Marc Jackson, Gary Trent and Sam Mitchell.

That's plenty enough talent to contend.

They struggled in close games though 9-10 for the season in games decided by four points or less or in overtime. Then they got swept in the playoffs and ended the season losing 16 of their last 25 games.

I don't think its enough talent to realistically contend, but its definitely enough to at least win a game in the first round or challenge to get out of the first round.

Again, if people are going to start acting like Duncan's run is something common....then they better turn around and criticize KG for underachieving big time compared to Duncan in 02 with a worse, but not terribly worse supporting cast around him.