Simple case AGAINST raising the minimum wage.

[NumberSix]

I'll say again, I really do not have a great grasp on this issue so I'm pretty sure all my thoughts will be easily refuted. I'm sort of just looking to learn here. Still, if there was no minimum wage at all, is there a chance that tons of jobs may just go to the lowest bidder possible? Could the Walmart greeter start at $10/hour, until someone else - who has no job - decides he could do that job for $8/hour? At which point the next couple of guys might somehow knock it down to $5/hour or below, since it all might be better than zero?

You know, there's a simple way to figure out if that is true....

Ask yourself? Are ALL jobs minimum wage?

Why do any above minimum wage jobs exist? What is stopping people from offering to do the same job for minimum wage?

There actually IS a problem with people doing jobs for less than minimum wage though. It's illegal hiring of illegal aliens.

[iamgine]

For some business, yes. For others, no.

The simple fact is that not all jobs have equal value. The problem with the minimum wage is this. Say there is a new minimum wage of $13. What that doesn't take into account is that there are jobs that just aren't worth $13 dollars an hour. If a business owner wants to pay someone $10.50 an hour to simply say "hello" to every customer who enter the business and plenty of people are willing to do that very easy task for that amount, why should the government say "NO! You have to pay $13"?

The government shouldn't be interfering with how much things are or are not worth. Wether it's services or goods. Nobody in their right minds would think it is sensible for the government to declare "Cans of soda can never be less than $1". That's ridiculous. If a business wants to sell sodas for $0.90, that's none of the governments business.

If a business wants to charge $1,000 for a sandwich, that's also none of the governments business. If it's unreasonable, people simply won't buy it. If people DO buy it, that is none of the government's business.

It's not governments place to enforce it's opinion of what value products have, including labour.

It's not perfect, but minimum wage is a decent solution.

If it's not minimum wage, it will be unions. And that has its own problems.

[Rake2204]

You know, there's a simple way to figure out if that is true....

Ask yourself? Are ALL jobs minimum wage?

Why do any above minimum wage jobs exist? What is stopping people from offering to do the same job for minimum wage?

There actually IS a problem with people doing jobs for less than minimum wage though. It's illegal hiring of illegal aliens.

Are all jobs minimum wage? Hmm, I do not believe so. More flat pay likely has to do with specialization, demand, and numerous other factors, yes?

For the jobs that require little or no experience or specialization (it theoretically does not take too much to learn how to milk cows, let's say), if there was not a minimum wage attached to the "no experience required" positions, wouldn't they all dip in wage, perhaps significantly, as people fought for any kind of employment, even if it only paid $4 per hour?

In turn, wouldn't that only shrink the legitimate American job market even further? Whereas many Americans are trying to survive off their minimum wage fast food job now, wouldn't an even lower wage possibly ruin any ability of living off such a profession? If so, is there enough room in the legitimate "living wage" professions for the formerly minimum wage earning workers to move on up and find jobs that pay a wage for which they can survive upon?

[NumberSix]

It's not perfect, but minimum wage is a decent solution.

If it's not minimum wage, it will be unions. And that has its own problems.

The minimum wage has other drawbacks though....


In Mexico, the minimum wage is 58 cents an hour. Yeah, you read that right. 58 cents an hour. When Mexicans find out that across the border it's $7.25, and that they can literally make more in an hour in America than they do in a day in Mexico..... What happens?

If you understand the phrase "flooding the market" you know what happens.

[iamgine]

For some business, yes. For others, no.

The simple fact is that not all jobs have equal value. The problem with the minimum wage is this. Say there is a new minimum wage of $13. What that doesn't take into account is that there are jobs that just aren't worth $13 dollars an hour. If a business owner wants to pay someone $10.50 an hour to simply say "hello" to every customer who enter the business and plenty of people are willing to do that very easy task for that amount, why should the government say "NO! You have to pay $13"?

The government shouldn't be interfering with how much things are or are not worth. Wether it's services or goods. Nobody in their right minds would think it is sensible for the government to declare "Cans of soda can never be less than $1". That's ridiculous. If a business wants to sell sodas for $0.90, that's none of the governments business.

If a business wants to charge $1,000 for a sandwich, that's also none of the governments business. If it's unreasonable, people simply won't buy it. If people DO buy it, that is none of the government's business.

It's not governments place to enforce it's opinion of what value products have, including labour.

Also, you got it wrong. The government should and will interfere with prices when there's a problem. They won't say "no you can't sell it for X dollars." But they will make it so it is impossible for you to sell at that price. For example, if a company is importing cars and selling them for very very cheap, so cheap that it endangers all American car business, the government will impose restriction on car imports and raise import car tax so that millions of people doesn't lose their job overnight.

[iamgine]

The minimum wage has other drawbacks though....


In Mexico, the minimum wage is 58 cents an hour. Yeah, you read that right. 58 cents an hour. When Mexicans find out that across the border it's $7.25, and that they can literally make more in an hour in America than they do in a day in Mexico..... What happens?

If you understand the phrase "flooding the market" you know what happens.

Of course, I said it's not perfect. But I think the benefits outweigh the drawback.

[NumberSix]

Also, you got it wrong. The government should and will interfere with prices when there's a problem. They won't say "no you can't sell it for X dollars." But they will make it so it is impossible for you to sell at that price. For example, if a company is importing cars and selling them for very very cheap, so cheap that it endangers all American car business, the government will impose restriction on car imports and raise import car tax so that millions of people doesn't lose their job overnight.

Actually, the American government EXACTLY doesn't do that. That is why the market is flooded with cheap "Made In China" products knowing fully well that the Chinese currency is specifically rigged to be artificially low so that products are worth insanely less in American money than they are in Chinese money.

Imagine it like this........

Imagine Canada says "yeah, our Canadian dollar is only worth $0.25 American". It's not actually true, but by claiming this, every time Canada sells something to America they get to exchange what the got payed to 4x as much. This is what China does.

So, imagine that Canada makes a car that is worth like $40,000. They sell these cars in America for $10,000 dollars, which American companies obviously can't compete with. They have to sell their cars that are worth $40k for $40k if they want to make any money. But Canada can sell them in America for $10k and then just turn it into $40k in Canadian money. It's obvious rigging. This is what China does billions of times everyday on a very small scale.

[iamgine]

Actually, the American government EXACTLY doesn't do that. That is why the market is flooded with cheap "Made In China" products knowing fully well that the Chinese currency is specifically rigged to be artificially low so that products are worth insanely less in American money than they are in Chinese money.

Imagine it like this........

Imagine Canada says "yeah, our Canadian dollar is only worth $0.25 American". It's not actually true, but by claiming this, every time Canada sells something to America they get to exchange what the got payed to 4x as much. This is what China does.

So, imagine that Canada makes a car that is worth like $40,000. They sell these cars in America for $10,000 dollars, which American companies obviously can't compete with. They have to sell they're cars that are worth $40k for $40k if they want to make any money. But Canada can sell them in America for $10k and then just turn it into $40k in Canadian money. It's obvious rigging. This is what China does billions of times everyday on a very small scale.

I said if there's a problem. Like the problem I described above; a big magnitude problem. They may not interfere for every single problem, but they will do it and has done it before.

[NumberSix]

I said if there's a problem. Like the problem I described above; a big magnitude problem. They may not do it for every single problem, but they will do it and has done it before.

I just specifically explained to you that they don't.

You have to understand, small products are sold in bulk. Wal-Mart doesn't just buy like 10 (insert cheap product). They buy in quantities of like 100,000.

Forget our previous Canadian example. Imagine it's Mexico this time. While our fictional Canadian example was rigged to be 400% cheaper, imagine the Mexican currency is artificially rigged to be only 25% cheaper.

Even if each of the (insert cheap product) is only $8, an order of 100,000 units is $800,000. The same Mexican product is $600,000. Nobody will ever pay $800,000 for a shipment of products when they can get the same products for $600,000.

[iamgine]

I just specifically explained to you that they don't.

You have to understand, small products are sold in bulk. Wal-Mart doesn't just buy like 10 (insert cheap product). They buy in quantities of like 100,000.

Forget our previous Canadian example. Imagine it's Mexico this time. While our fictional Canadian example was rigged to be 400% cheaper, imagine the Mexican currency is artificially rigged to be only 25% cheaper.

Even if each of the (insert cheap product) is only $8, an order of 100,000 units is $800,000. The same Mexican product is $600,000. Nobody will ever pay $800,000 for a shipment of products when they can get the same products for $600,000.

You are saying they don't do it for what you're describing. I'm saying they may not interfere for every single problem, but they will interfere with prices if necessary and has done it before.

[NumberSix]

You are saying they don't do it for what you're describing. I'm saying they may not interfere for every single problem, but they will interfere with prices if necessary and has done it before.

First of all, if they have or haven't is not even remotely relevant. The argument is whether they SHOULD interfere, not if they do.

Second, you keep claiming that they do, but you give no examples. You just claim it, which gives us no indiction of wether or not it is beneficial which is the actual question. You don't say "here's is when they have done it, and this is how it was beneficial". You say "they've don it before" which gives no information one way or the other in answering the question of if it is the right or wrong course of action.

[iamgine]

First of all, if they have or haven't is not even remotely relevant. The argument is whether they SHOULD interfere, not if they do.

Second, you keep claiming that they do, but you give no examples. You just claim it, which gives us no indiction of wether or not it is beneficial which is the actual question. You don't say "here's is when they have done it, and this is how it was beneficial". You say "they've don it before" which gives no information one way or the other in answering the question of if it is the right or wrong course of action.

Of course they should in some cases. In my example above, are you of the opinion of them not doing anything?

[NumberSix]

Chinese currency manipulation isnt as bad as it once was. Theyve let it hit close to its real value as of late.

The hilarious thing about that is that they will take a giant loss the the debt America owes them. Assuming the president/congress doesn't decide to "adjust for inflation".

[Jameerthefear]

Quite obviously min wage should be raised and health care should be free

If you disagree you're an idealistic prick

not dum necessarily. But definitely an idealistic prick

<3 love u

[Jameerthefear]

:

People actually believe "I want more money" Is a legit reason to FORCE business owners to pay more than what they want to.

If you want more money, have you not considered getting a higher paying job? If you're not willing to work for what is being offered, don't take the job. If nobody is willing to work for what a business is paying, the owner will have to offer more and that's how we see how much that job is actually worth.

If enough people are willing to work for what subway is already paying, then that is what the job is worth.

It is. Stop being a f*cking f*ggot. Think of all the shit I could do if I got like... almost $75 extra on paycheck. Would be awesome.