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Old 12-27-2011, 03:50 AM   #31
HylianNightmare
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

17 and 6 while shotting in the 40's?
no way
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:09 AM   #32
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Arenas did not run that team. Jamison has been a pure iso scorer his entire career. And guess what, he's still playing at pretty much the same level he was. Under what point guards these past years? Uhhh. Baron Davis? Mo Williams? That's right. Same player. Different system? Same player.
Arenas did run that team. He operated every single offensive set when he brought the ball up the floor, which triggered their motion offense.

You're right in that Jamison has been much of an iso player. However, in Washington when Arenas was there it involved a lot more of him getting his shots in certain spots than him isolating from anywhere on the floor. He got his fair share of touches, but that was in the gameplan for him to get the basketball on certain plays in specific areas of the court and take the shot.

You didnt mention his stint in Cleveland with LeBron when he was forced to play off of a Point Forward, in which he wasnt nearly as productive as the Cavs hoped he'd be when they picked him up following the Amare debacle. For a guy who single handedly carried the Wizards in the Playoffs maybe 1-2 years before, it certainly was a far cry come Playoff time with what he offered. Outside of stretching the floor, he really served no purpose.

Last season, it went back to normal considering now they needed to give him touches. Probably will be the same again this season as well. Still good to see him producing in the NBA.

Quote:
Same goes for Butler. Butler actually had his best season ever when Arenas was out for the season. That doesn't sound like something that would happen to a solid point guard. Good point guards let players get career numbers when playing with them. Not when it's physically impossible for them to hog the ball, which was the case with Arenas.

Butler's best season came because he became the focal ballhandler of their lineup, he started several games in the backcourt which was the first and only time that had occured in his career. Jordan ran more sets with Butler setting up plays in 1 season than he ever did in Butler's 4 or 5 previous years there. Since then, Butler has reverted back into the player he was with Arenas as a ball stopper scoring wing.


Quote:
Just to clarify, I really liked Arenas game back in the day. But distributing the ball was never one of his strengths. You could clearly see that last season. If he was a good distributor he could have fallen back on that, at least help his team in that regard. Yet he continued to put up horrible shots, as if that was all he knew. I wonder why that is? I wonder why he didn't show the incredible distributive side to Arenas that you insist there must be last season.
First of all I never said Gilbert was an incredible distributor of the basketball, I simply said he deserves a little more credit for being good at penetrating the lane and creating for others. He showed frequently it wasn't all about him taking every single shot, although he had a green light to do so. Im not saying he was Nash-like or Rondo-like, but Arenas was and IMO can still be an effective passer if you're putting him into that role as a PG. My only question is can he hold up for an entire season physically & mentally.

In Orlando, what I saw was a guy in Arenas who had no clue what role he was playing. As you see with Jameer starting, it isn't all about Jameer being a playmaker for his teammates when hes in the game although he has shown at times he can be capable of it. I dont see how Arenas could fall back on being a distributor, when their offense doesn't revolve around that from the PG position specifically. What I saw in Arenas in Orlando was a guy coming off the bench for limited minutes of course and trying to figure out which shots to take in an offense he wasn't cut out for. I think Otis Smith envisioned Arenas being the ultimate 6th Man who comes off the bench and plays as he did in Washington. However, SVG doesn't seem to want that type of player on his team no matter who it is. Hes one of the coaches who have been openly critical about mid-range jumpers being the least efficient FG you can take. So a player like Arenas doesn't mesh with his offensive approach of screens leading to a 4 Out/1 In set with shooters spreading the floor around Dwight. Look no further than what happened to Jason Richardson's game when he got to Orlando and how much it has slipped due to the role hes now in. He looks like a shell of his former self although the athleticism is still there.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:11 AM   #33
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by HylianNightmare
17 and 6 while shotting in the 40's?
no way
Low 40's.

Cutting down on contested 3 Pointers will keep him above the Iverson Line.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowe
Arenas did run that team. He operated every single offensive set when he brought the ball up the floor, which triggered their motion offense.

You're right in that Jamison has been much of an iso player. However, in Washington when Arenas was there it involved a lot more of him getting his shots in certain spots than him isolating from anywhere on the floor. He got his fair share of touches, but that was in the gameplan for him to get the basketball on certain plays in specific areas of the court and take the shot.

You didnt mention his stint in Cleveland with LeBron when he was forced to play off of a Point Forward, in which he wasnt nearly as productive as the Cavs hoped he'd be when they picked him up following the Amare debacle. For a guy who single handedly carried the Wizards in the Playoffs maybe 1-2 years before, it certainly was a far cry come Playoff time with what he offered. Outside of stretching the floor, he really served no purpose.

Last season, it went back to normal considering now they needed to give him touches. Probably will be the same again this season as well. Still good to see him producing in the NBA.



Butler's best season came because he became the focal ballhandler of their lineup, he started several games in the backcourt which was the first and only time that had occured in his career. Jordan ran more sets with Butler setting up plays in 1 season than he ever did in Butler's 4 or 5 previous years there. Since then, Butler has reverted back into the player he was with Arenas as a ball stopper scoring wing.



First of all I never said Gilbert was an incredible distributor of the basketball, I simply said he deserves a little more credit for being good at penetrating the lane and creating for others. He showed frequently it wasn't all about him taking every single shot, although he had a green light to do so. Im not saying he was Nash-like or Rondo-like, but Arenas was and IMO can still be an effective passer if you're putting him into that role as a PG. My only question is can he hold up for an entire season physically & mentally.

In Orlando, what I saw was a guy in Arenas who had no clue what role he was playing. As you see with Jameer starting, it isn't all about Jameer being a playmaker for his teammates when hes in the game although he has shown at times he can be capable of it. I dont see how Arenas could fall back on being a distributor, when their offense doesn't revolve around that from the PG position specifically. What I saw in Arenas in Orlando was a guy coming off the bench for limited minutes of course and trying to figure out which shots to take in an offense he wasn't cut out for. I think Otis Smith envisioned Arenas being the ultimate 6th Man who comes off the bench and plays as he did in Washington. However, SVG doesn't seem to want that type of player on his team no matter who it is. Hes one of the coaches who have been openly critical about mid-range jumpers being the least efficient FG you can take. So a player like Arenas doesn't mesh with his offensive approach of screens leading to a 4 Out/1 In set with shooters spreading the floor around Dwight. Look no further than what happened to Jason Richardson's game when he got to Orlando and how much it has slipped due to the role hes now in. He looks like a shell of his former self although the athleticism is still there.

If I hadn't wasted my rep on negging trolls, I'd give you a rep for this.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:13 AM   #35
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

..
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:15 AM   #36
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

dude. put every single player 6'7 or under not on the lakers in this league on an individual sheet of paper. put those papers into a hat. shake the hat. any name that u have drawn is a better pg than we have.

Every. Single. Name. That. You. Can. Possibly. Pick.

id love to have gilbert. ill take anybody.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:17 AM   #37
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec

Quote:
ChrisMannixSIChris Mannix

Not hearing of much interest in Gilbert Arenas. One exec told me Gil's balky knee limits his movement too much to even take a flyer on him.

22 Dec
..
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:27 AM   #38
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliteballer
..
This blows my mind.

Outside of his knee injury history, I dont see how a team wouldn't take a flyer on him. If that Exec is talking about Gilbert's lack of pace with the ball in his hands, he needs to look no further than Chauncey Billups still as a productive backcourt piece. Common demoninator between both is that they're 6'3/6'4, strong, crafty ballhandlers, and of course have the ability to knock down pull up jumpers. The big difference of course between both revolves solely on reputation around the league.

Now, I'd fully understand the argument against a smaller PG who played at such a slow pace.......err Bibby.

Last edited by Rowe : 12-27-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:29 AM   #39
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowe


First of all I never said Gilbert was an incredible distributor of the basketball, I simply said he deserves a little more credit for being good at penetrating the lane and creating for others. He showed frequently it wasn't all about him taking every single shot, although he had a green light to do so. Im not saying he was Nash-like or Rondo-like, but Arenas was and IMO can still be an effective passer if you're putting him into that role as a PG. My only question is can he hold up for an entire season physically & mentally.

Sorry for cutting up your post like that, but that is the essence right there. He was good a penetrating, slashing and from that position he could distribute the basketball due to the space he created.

But it's his athleticism and explosiveness that made it possible for him to do that. He can't play like that anymore. And that is why he looked like a deer in the headlights in Orlando. He needs to completely revise his game and until that happens he isn't of much use to a good team.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:50 AM   #40
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Sorry for cutting up your post like that, but that is the essence right there. He was good a penetrating, slashing and from that position he could distribute the basketball due to the space he created.

But it's his athleticism and explosiveness that made it possible for him to do that. He can't play like that anymore. And that is why he looked like a deer in the headlights in Orlando. He needs to completely revise his game and until that happens he isn't of much use to a good team.

I fully understand that.

I know much of his athleticism is gone and hes not going to blow by his man when he gets into the lane. However, due to his size/strength compared to opposing PG's he can still get into the lane & push off while getting his shot off. He cant do that all game, but if the lane is open. Hell why not?

As far as revising his game. You're 100% right.

My thinking is as far as the Lakers are concerned, he offers a better PG option at this point than Fisher & Blake. I was watching the Bulls game & then caught some of the Kings game and I was just thinking how neither Fisher nor Blake are even effective coming off of a pick. They dont even take a shot although thats the only way they can create space with the ball in their hands. My thinking was that Gilbert could just feast in that type of setting espescially with Gasol setting the pick for him. Lakers just badly need someone else in that role in the backcourt.

Chauncey would've been the perfect fit for that, but Gilbert in that role isn't too bad of an option at this point. Espescially at the veterans minimum rather than $20 Million.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:00 AM   #41
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Well, the Lakers could use his shooting
.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:36 AM   #42
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Yep Lakers could definitely use another nutcase.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

How many more terrible seasons must this guy have before the diehards realize he can't play anymore? What's it been now, 4 years since he had a quality NBA season? What will it take for some of you to realize that this guy is done? You think he's going to save the Lakers? LOL, please. They got Bryant, Bynum and Gasol, they won't win the Championship but if Brown is a decent coach they should be a playoff team. That will have to be good enough because here isn't a team in league history who the current Arenas would transform into a Contender.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:59 AM   #44
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Default Re: It seems obvious to me the Lakers need to sign Gilbert Arenas

Gilbert aint gonna do nothin for the lakers. If he is even healthy which i doubt, he aint gonna be able to help them. He won't shoot in the 40's. He is as good as tracy mcgrady. Consider gillbert done.
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