1996 MVP and best player

[riseagainst]

stats suggest robinson and jordan were in fact VERY close. i dont mind that you have jordan "better", but to say it isn't close? delusional.

but MJ took his play to the playoffs, where DRob did not.

[brooks_thompson]

72-10 is probably the greatest testament to Jordan's unquenchable desire to win. It may not be framed with metrics, but I think common sense wins the day here. The best you're gonna get from anyone responding to your analysis is 'I see why you think that way. BUT...')

[magnax1]

Stats don't mean shit without context. Jordan was considerably better than Robinson. He was just exiting his prime and played an ubelievably smart and efficient season within the context of his team. This sort of thing is like saying Davis is the best player in the league because of his stats.

[sportjames23]

Did anyone doubt given the OP's history plus his 1993 best player thread that he wouldn't have Jordan as the best player in any of his "player of the year" threads? It was so obvious.

1996 was EASILY Jordan's year. Had the best numbers (top 2 minimum), superb defense, and put those numbers up on a record-setting team while playing championship level team ball. LOL @ OP's agenda with these threads.

/thread

Oh, and OP is a fakkit.

[OldSchoolBBall]

stats suggest robinson and jordan were in fact VERY close. i dont mind that you have jordan "better", but to say it isn't close? delusional.

top 5 in more MAJOR statistical categories, higher PER (has the tiebreaker) along with a slight worse RAPM to jordan (also played in a MUCH TOUGHER, top heavy conference).

the fact THAT jordan himself said pippen could be argued as the better/best player (when healthy) makes everything you just posted non sequitur.

Nobody in 1996 was saying that Robinson was better than Jordan after the first month of the season when it was clear that Jordan was back to being Jordan.

But keep pushing that agenda and using whatever numbers you'd like to back it up.

[ArbitraryWater]

So looking forward to OP's 1997 and 1998 threads

Would also like 1988-1990 editions

[mehyaM24]

Nobody in 1996 was saying that Robinson was better than Jordan after the first month of the season when it was clear that Jordan was back to being Jordan.

But keep pushing that agenda and using whatever numbers you'd like to back it up.

lol @ perception. i dont really care. i can pull up quotes for DAYS (the league and players voted robinson along with pippen a top 50 player ALL TIME that season). ~5 months into the year, pippen's peers thought he was the BEST all-around player btw.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/199...ls-guard-steve

anyway, i have jordan #1 for years 1990, 1991 and 1992. so this isn't a crusade against him. think of these topics more as liberating, highlighting the impact other greats carried. if you want to cling to mere perception, then by all means. i typically use hard data and actual game footage to back up my opinions.

[mehyaM24]

So looking forward to OP's 1997 and 1998 threads

Would also like 1988-1990 editions

i don't have enough data to make definitive statements for 1988-1989, but i can tell you i have magic as my best player in 1988, arguably in 1989, and jordan as my best player in 1990.

regarding the 1998 season: read my shaq thread i made a couple nights ago. you may enjoy that one.

[juju151111]

lol @ perception. i dont really care. i can pull up quotes for DAYS (the league and players voted robinson along with pippen a top 50 player ALL TIME that season). ~5 months into the year, pippen's peers thought he was the BEST all-around player btw.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/199...ls-guard-steve

anyway, i have jordan #1 for years 1990, 1991 and 1992. so this isn't a crusade against him. think of these topics more as liberating, highlighting the impact other greats carried. if you want to cling to mere perception, then by all means. i typically use hard data and actual game footage to back up my opinions.

Mj was the best player in 93 too if it's regular season and playoffs. 1996 is the samething. So Mj was the best player in those years too.

[ArbitraryWater]

i don't have enough data to make definitive statements for 1988-1989, but i can tell you i have magic as my best player in 1988, arguably in 1989, and jordan as my best player in 1990.

regarding the 1988 season: read my shaq thread i made a couple nights ago. you may enjoy that one.

Oh right, yeah, that basically is the 1998 one.. I mean, Shaq was the superior player, I'm not taking 35-year old MJ over near peak Shaq, but MJ had the more successful season.

I don't understand how peak MJ (1990) was 3rd in MVP voting, tbh.

[juju151111]

Oh right, yeah, that basically is the 1998 one.. I mean, Shaq was the superior player, I'm not taking 35-year old MJ over near peak Shaq, but MJ had the more successful season.

I don't understand how peak MJ (1990) was 3rd in MVP voting, tbh.

Team record.

[mehyaM24]

Oh right, yeah, that basically is the 1998 one.. I mean, Shaq was the superior player, I'm not taking 35-year old MJ over near peak Shaq, but MJ had the more successful season.

I don't understand how peak MJ (1990) was 3rd in MVP voting, tbh.

- 6th best record in the league
- magic had an insane regular season
- david robinson had an insane regular season
- both david robinson and magic led their teams to better records

of course, jordan was the better player considering what he did for his team when it pertained to the ALL AROUND game. more skills with a similar impact, but went to another level in the playoffs. especially against detroit - the best defense in the game.

i dont have their RAPM for that season - but i'm sure it would be extremely close anyway.

[SexSymbol]

*if anyone hasn't seen my 1993 MVP and best player thread, please to so.

the best, most critical and efficient way of valuing a players impact is using the metric, RAPM - another way of measuring who the most valuable is and who has the most impact to their teams and across the league. of course, "real rapm" wasn't measured until ~1997, but this still does a MUCH better job than per (adjusting many different lineups BUT singling out individual impact, NOT team), and as others have said, its better than nothing (beside watching game tape).*

so lets get started.

the 1996 MVP and best player - both IMO had to have been david robinson. not only did robinson have the CLEAR highest RAPM that season, but also the highest player efficiency rating, most double-doubles, was 2nd in rebounds (22 games of 15+ rebounds, 6 games of 18+ rebounds, 2 games of 20+ rebounds), 3rd in points (23 games of 30+ points), and 3rd in blocks (23 games of 5+ blocks, 3 games of 8+ blocks - statistically, as you can see, he was just a notch above the rest.

what REALLY seals his case is the fact, david accomplished this in a tougher western conference (suns, jazz, rockets, lakers, sonics), leading his team to the second best record out there.

in the playoffs you ask? against barkley's suns, david averaged 30/12/4 on 62%TS. staggering dominance and efficiency. of course - he caught the injury bug in the second round of the playoffs, and the rest was history. we cannot ignore the work he put in throughout the 82 game season and first round of the playoffs though. doing so would be ignorant.

who do i have behind robinson that season? my top 5 follows:

* david robinson
* shaq
* pippen/jordan
* jordan/pippen
* alonzo mourning

if you want to read up on david robinson's career, and it being undervalued, i suggest this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/f...is-underrated/

1992 and 1997 will be done shortly with reference points to each thread, along with a final conclusion (will be its own thread) to put everything in full circle.

Bolded are not important at all at finding the best player. Your basketball intellect is critically low.

[SamuraiSWISH]

During that span, from '96 - '98, the only time someone had a case for MVP was in 1997. And that's because of the Jazz's success, and Karl Malone actively campaigned for the award. He was neither better, or more desrving than MJ.

1998 was the season where someone other than Jordan had claim to be the best player. MJ was 35 years old, beginning to rapidly slow down, and Shaq was on the rise.

Arguing anything else is hindsight.

If you were around at the time in the league, you'd know that no one else had a claim as best player, or MVP. Actually Scottie had a claim for MVP shortly during the 1996 season but Jordan's re-stored swagger, skills, and dominance eventually came through to make it obvious.

[3ball]

MJ was 35 years old, beginning to rapidly slow down.

you just made that up out of thin air - specifically, what is your basis for this... if he was slowing down, why did his performance increase so dramatically in the playoffs, and how was he able to carry the Bulls in the Finals with both Pippen (15 ppg, 41% FG) and Rodman (3 ppg, 8.1 rpg) completely MIA?

Jordan set a record in the 1998 Finals by scoring 38% of his team's points..

physically, he had almost twice as many dunks in 1998 (89) than he had in 1997 (49)... so you are misguided here, i think blinded by regular season numbers, which are never NEARLY as important as the postseason.

his 1998 season was similar to 1993, where he conserved energy in the regular season, and then turned it up in the playoffs to have one of the best postseason runs ever - you forget that Jordan KNOWS how to 3-peat, and apparently you do it by conserving energy in the regular season the 3rd go-round.

If you were around at the time in the league, you'd know that no one else had a claim as best player, or MVP. Actually Scottie had a claim for MVP shortly during the 1996 season but Jordan's re-stored swagger, skills, and dominance eventually came through to make it obvious.

at no point was there a sliver of possibility that the bolded above could happen... jordan didn't just restore swagger to the Bulls - he put up a top 10 all-time statistical season... he had a 0.317 WS/48 and 29.4 PER, compared to 0.209 and 21.0 for scottie.

i was in Chicago at the time going to school and played with guys that played with Jordan... i heard a lot of stuff, but never heard anything about scottie having a "claim" for MVP... jordan was back in full force putting up GOAT-level stats.
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