Which of the following players would you put in the top 25 all time?

[Harison]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton (borderline)
Cousy
Reed
Wade (borderline)
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

[wally_world]

Isiah
Pippen
Doctor

[SouBeachTalents]

Updated count

Isiah- 13
Pippen- 13
Havlicek- 11
Barry- 7
Dr. J- 12
Hayes- No love
Schayes- 1
Payton- 1
Stockton- 9
Cousy- 4
Reed- 1
Wade- 8
Kidd- 1
Mikan- 8
Robinson- 8

[G.O.A.T]

Updated count

Isiah- 13
Pippen- 13
Havlicek- 11
Barry- 7
Dr. J- 12
Hayes- No love
Schayes- 1
Payton- 1
Stockton- 9
Cousy- 4
Reed- 1
Wade- 8
Kidd- 1
Mikan- 8
Robinson- 8

Stockton over Kidd and Payton by so much makes little sense to me.

Essentially you have three guys with the same resume except Kidd and Payton never played with anyone as good as Karl Malone.

[magnax1]

Stockton over Kidd and Payton by so much makes little sense to me.

Essentially you have three guys with the same resume except Kidd and Payton never played with anyone as good as Karl Malone.

I think its pretty much agreed payton and kidd were quitr a bit worse offensively. Kidd couldnt score/shoot and payton was a ballhog SG playing PG.

[magnax1]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson
Bolded the maybes. I dont have a list in my head, and Im not sure if half of them would really make it.

[G.O.A.T]

I think its pretty much agreed payton and kidd were quitr a bit worse offensively. Kidd couldnt score/shoot and payton was a ballhog SG playing PG.

I disagree. It's certainly not agreed on, but I could see an argument (and have from you before)

Kidd shot the three just as well as Stockton, especially later in his career and while Payton was a little too shot happy for my taste, that was his role more so than Stockton. While Stockton was clearly much more efficient he never averaged over 17ppg. Payton was above that mark for a decade.

Even if you subjectively prefer one's talents to another's, their resumes and reputations seem pretty similar.

[magnax1]

I disagree. It's certainly not agreed on, but I could see an argument (and have from you before)

Kidd shot the three just as well as Stockton, especially later in his career and while Payton was a little too shot happy for my taste, that was his role more so than Stockton. While Stockton was clearly much more efficient he never averaged over 17ppg. Payton was above that mark for a decade.

Even if you subjectively prefer one's talents to another's, their resumes and reputations seem pretty similar.

Kidd was not nearly as good of a shooter until he was past his prime. Stockton was one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Averaged 40+% almost every year in his prime. They scored on similar numbers while stockton was shooting with league leading efficiency some years like Nash. Kidds similar to stockton in longevity and defense, and better in rebounding. Otherwise Stockton has a large positive differential in impact.
Payton was not only "shot happy" but terribly inefficient except for a few years around 96. He had an incredibly short prime and his value was predicated on his great defense (which I think Kidd was honestly as good at or better) and that also had a relatively short lifespan from 94-97 or 98
As for their similar reputations, most people seem to disagree.

[kingofkitsch]

Isiah
Pippen
Havlicek
Barry
Dr. J
Hayes
Schayes
Payton
Stockton
Cousy
Reed
Wade
Kidd
Mikan
Robinson

Mikan is the selection I was iffy on, but for sheer influence on the game he is one of the top 25 players of all-time.

Looking at the results thus far, D Rob. is being slightly underrated: the leader and defensive anchor on an all-time great defensive title team, one of the greatest defensive players ever, one of the top players ever in terms of advanced statistics, etc. etc.

Surprised to see Dr. J is listed as one of the options; seems like he is one of those consensus top 20 picks.

Isiah is so close, and on another day I might put him in there. His post-playing career, I think, has really negatively affected how he is viewed. One of the greatest competitors the game has ever seen, too.