Shaq's Wilt like performance

[PHILA]

Kareem in that famous available R.S game against the Lakers in 1972 was credited with 20 rebounds and 9 or 10 blocked shots. I watched the game more than once and I counted 16 or 17 rebounds and 3 or 4 blocked shots. In the same game, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds, but I counted 17 (his blocked shots were credited correctly at 6). In another full game (Bulls-Lakers, 1971 playoffs), Wilt was credited with 33 rebounds, while I counted 27.

I would question how the scorers for each team officially credited individual rebounds. How about keeping the ball alive anywhere near the offensive backboard tipping it towards a teammate? Would this below count as an offensive rebound for either Chamberlain or Jackson? Perhaps also a field goal attempt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=29s



Or this below where Wilt attempts to keep possession alive before Nate snags it down. Was this recorded as a rebound and/or FGA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=27m27s



Or this in the '68 playoffs vs. NY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=16m41s


In 1965, there was a Sports Illustrated article noting the difference in rebounds credited to Russell & Wilt by the Celtics scorer Dennis Whitmarsh and Sixers scorer Harvey Pollack. The subjectivity as to what apparently qualified as an offensive rebound may explain the sometimes large discrepancies. To me Russell is easily the best defensive rebounder in league history, while Wilt was best on the offensive backboards. The Sixers home court "advantage" also aided their rebounding, while in Boston Garden the rims were loose, therefore benefiting the Celtics outside shooters.




Christian Science Monitor - Apr 8, 1966

Philadelphia replaced its old basket and backboard setup before the season with a single post model. This post has a steel finger coming off the top which holds both backboard and basket in a very rigid position. And this is perfect for a physically powerful team like the 76ers, who score so many of their baskets in close, and who depend so heavily on Chamberlain for the turnaround dunk. But a tight hoop should work against the Celtics' outside shooters. The ball also rebounds differently on this type of backboard. It is usually a very active rebound, generally high and often deep.

[jlauber]

I also recall something about Lenny Wilkens assists in games late in the '68 season, when he chasing Chamberlain. Seems he was getting some pretty generous scoring in those games.

[PHILA]

I also recall something about Lenny Wilkens assists in games late in the '68 season, when he chasing Chamberlain. Seems he was getting some pretty generous scoring in those games.

Sports Illustrated - March 11, 1968

THE RECORD MAKERS

From time to time there are angry protests from NBA teams and players about the official scoring system in the league. It is decidedly bush, with home-town favoritism blatantly evident in the recording of individual statistics. The NBA Guide, for instance, lists 23 rebounding performances of 40 rebounds or more in a game. Just one of these records was made without the benefit of a home-town statistician. Similarly, only one of the top 36 assist marks was made on the road.

A classic scoring goof was made in a 76er-Bullet game two years ago when the official box score credited Gerry Ward with one field goal in no attempts (1 for 0). There was also the time that Hal Greer took six shots in a game and made seven of them, according to the stat men. And at half time in the All-Star game in January, Greer was credited with making two baskets but only taking one shot.

In a recent game in Evansville, Ind. between Chicago and St. Louis the official scorer recorded only three assists for the Hawks' Len Wilkens, who tops the league in that category. This led to immediate retribution when the Bulls visited St. Louis. At half time a Chicago official complained to Hawks General Manager Marty Blake that the Bulls' Jim Washington had been credited with only two rebounds. Blake replied, " Washington will get another rebound when Wilkens gets an assist in Evansville."

Currently Wilt Chamberlain is leading the league in complaining about statistics, and probably with good reason. Philadelphia Statistician Harvey Pollack is one of the few well-regarded scorers in the NBA. He won't favor anyone, including Wilt, but he thinks Chamberlain probably has a valid complaint. To check for himself, Pollack decided two Sundays ago to keep his own box score as he watched the telecast of a game between the 76ers and the Hawks in St. Louis. The official statistics showed Wilkens with 13 assists and Chamberlain with four. Pollack, however, credited eight to Wilkens and nine to Chamberlain. "I knew it was coming," Pollack said, "because Chamberlain was catching Wilkens in total assists."

Why doesn't the NBA just throw away its record book and start again—this time as a big-league operation?

[Psileas]

I would question how the scorers for each team officially credited individual rebounds. How about keeping the ball alive anywhere near the offensive backboard tipping it towards a teammate? Would this below count as an offensive rebound for either Chamberlain or Jackson? Perhaps also a field goal attempt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=29s

A bit too obscure to tell.

Or this below where Wilt attempts to keep possession alive before Nate snags it down. Was this recorded as a rebound and/or FGA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=27m27s

Normally, I'd give the rebound to Thurmond and nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised though if some counted it as a FGA for Wilt, as well. This is another reason I'd love to see some more games from that era. In that 1971 game I mentioned above, I counted, apart from Wilt's rebounds, the total rebounds of the game. The number was about 105-110, giving Wilt a (by my counting) rebounding rate of 25%. I have no idea about the number of total rebounds the boxscore indicated.

Or this in the '68 playoffs vs. NY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=16m41s

Comives with the rebound + the assist to Bellamy.

[PHILA]

This is another reason I'd love to see some more games from that era.

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

[jlauber]

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

EVERY game of the '72 WCF's was nationally televised as well. Where are they? Wilt and Russell went H2H on MANY Sunday televised games in the 60's. Where are they? Chamberlain blocked 23 shots on a nationally televised game on Christmas day in 1968? Where is it? Wilt's Lakers pummeled Russell's Celtics, in BOSTON, 108-73, in a nationally televised game in '69. Where is it? I remember watching EVERY Warrior-Laker game in the '72 season. Where are they? Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain. Where is it?

Hopefully someday we will get at least some of those games, as well as the many other s that had to have been televised.

[L.Kizzle]

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

So the double headers, other teams played in the Spectrum? I though this was only at Madison Square Garden??

[PHILA]

Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain.

There are enough lies in his book as it is.

So the double headers, other teams played in the Spectrum? I though this was only at Madison Square Garden??

Cheaper prices as well compared to now.

[L.Kizzle]

There are enough lies in his book as it is.




Cheaper prices as well compared to now.

Were the double headers in every city? WHo was considered the home team in these double headers.

[PHILA]

Were the double headers in every city? WHo was considered the home team in these double headers.

In non-NBA cities I believe it was considered a neutral court. No different in NBA cities when two "away" teams played.

[L.Kizzle]

In non-NBA cities I believe it was considered a neutral court. No different in NBA cities when two "away" teams played.

So they played games in non-NBA cities? Like how the NBA Preseason is, or the China Games or whatever.

[PHILA]

So they played games in non-NBA cities? Like how the NBA Preseason is, or the China Games or whatever.

Indeed, one example being Wilt's 100 point game was played in Hershey, PA. If look at the schedule there are some neutral games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...962_games.html

[necya]

[QUOTE=Psileas]I know it's not your fault, but, is this the best quality we can find for this game? I remember having watched the highlights from LakersDynasty and a part from the game (1st Q mainly) just because I wanted to count Shaq's rebounds and blocked shots, but my eyes wanted to quit me after a while.

i have a master quality version of this game on 2 DVDs, but i have no clue how to upload screenshots here.
O'Neal didn't get more than 21 rebounds and 8 blocks. plus, some were illegal for sure.

[Pointguard]

EVERY game of the '72 WCF's was nationally televised as well. Where are they? Wilt and Russell went H2H on MANY Sunday televised games in the 60's. Where are they? Chamberlain blocked 23 shots on a nationally televised game on Christmas day in 1968? Where is it? Wilt's Lakers pummeled Russell's Celtics, in BOSTON, 108-73, in a nationally televised game in '69. Where is it? I remember watching EVERY Warrior-Laker game in the '72 season. Where are they? Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain. Where is it?

Hopefully someday we will get at least some of those games, as well as the many other s that had to have been televised.

It really is a conspiracy. It's not questionable to me. The complete wipe out of Wilt's great games can only be done intentionally. I think it was to protect the journalist that voted Russell the best player - if people want a motivation.

[jlauber]

It really is a conspiracy. It's not questionable to me. The complete wipe out of Wilt's great games can only be done intentionally. I think it was to protect the journalist that voted Russell the best player - if people want a motivation.

It certainly seems suspicious to me that much of what little known footage we had of Chamberlain, by WiltatKansas, was removed from YouTube (for whatever reason)...much of it lost forever according to him.