Is there actually a way to guage if a makes others better or not??

[3ball]

Thanks. btw LeBron-ball makes every player on the court a threat to score. Bottom line.

Lebron significantly reduces the PPG and APG of teammates - bottom line - this is statistical fact.. With teammates playing under-capacity, the TEAM plays under capacity and underachieves (2009, 2011, 2014).. Otoh, MJ never reduced the PPG or APG of teammates, so the team always played to capacity and never underachieved.

Also, Lebron's reduction of teammates' ppg and apg means his stats are achieved at the expense of teammates - again, MJ had the ability to achieve elite stats WHILE teammates played to capacity, which puts him in another dimension from Lebron.

Since Lebron reduces teammates' APG, there was little or no increase in the Heat or Cavs' assist frequency during Lebron's time there, whereas the Bulls' assist frequency increased significantly during MJ's time - again, this is statistical fact.. Off-ball players like MJ foster better teamwork - they always have low time of possession and are highly-assisted, so teammates literally have more assist opportunities and playmaking time.

[SouBeachTalents]

Keep in mind that Lebron wasted 19/9 from Bosh in 2011 playoffs and 25/7/4 from Wade.

Also, Bosh wasn't just a "solid" 3rd option - he's a 10-time all-star, and therefore the most decorated 3rd option of all time - but alongside Lebron, he was relegated to floor-spreader, which reduced his stats...

However, the very fact that Bosh was versatile enough to become a 40% 3-point shooter on good volume is a testament to his all-star pedigree and quality of teammate.

How many All-NBA teams and playoff appearances without LeBron does the "most decorated" 3rd option of all time Bosh have? He must have a lot to garner that title

[dhsilv]

The statement of a player making others better is almost always used to describe what you're calling mechanical.

Great shooters create space opening the floor for guys who control the ball to have more space to work with.

Great passers keep the ball moving so the offense is ahead of the defense.

Great play makers both score for themselves but also draw double teams and can pass to shooters/post players and allow them to get easier baskets.

A great defender can allow other players to rest more on defense without hurting the team, allowing offensive players to spend more energy where they're better.

If you want actually make people better, that's be hard. That's like looking for great locker room guys who help teach the rookies and things like that. I'm not sure you can quantify that.

[3ball]

How many All-NBA teams and playoff appearances without LeBron does the "most decorated" 3rd option of all time Bosh have? He must have a lot to garner that title

A 3rd option would never get voted to many all-nba teams.. Maybe 1 or 2, tops.. I think that's what Robert Parish and James Worthy got.

But Bosh was actually a better 3rd option relative to his competition than those guys were - he was voted a top 12 player in his conference (an all-star) 10 times, which is more than any other 3rd option ever.. So Lebron had access to one of the best 3rd options relative to his competition that anyone's ever had access to..

[90sgoat]

The eye test is still the most reliable, but the NBA really should begin tracking hockey assists, which is an assist that is assisted, such as a pass to a cutting player who then kicks to 3 ball or to another cut.

Tracking hockey assists would encourage players to play more selfless because it would show up as a stat to use in contract negotiations.

Example of player who makes his teammates better is Mike Dunleavy, very underrated. Jason Kidd, but people know that.

Of course a real leader makes people better too, but you'd have to have played ball to know this as it won't show up in stats.

[sdot_thadon]

It's really subjective and mostly open to opinion. Some cases at least are pretty clear though when guys are only useful playing with a certain player or happen to have career years next to said player. But still cases are just cases, nothing concrete can be made.