WOAT 2nd option championship production

[Dray n Klay]

LeBron won a championship with this 2nd option production:


15.9 points 4.6 rebounds 4.8 assists 45.7% FG








Has Kobe/Jordan ever won a championship with worse 2nd option help?

[SCdac]

Duncan and Dirk have had some relatively weak second options at times.. Hakeem too before they got Drexler (who averaged ~20 ppg in their second championship).. Who was the "second option" on those Pistons teams I wonder

[Dray n Klay]

Duncan and Dirk have had some relatively weak second options at times.. Hakeem too before they got Drexler (who averaged ~20 ppg in their second championship).. Who was the "second option" on those Pistons teams I wonder

Duncan and Dirk were OUTPLAYED by their 2nd options in the Finals.



Manu outplayed Duncan in the 2005 Finals


Terry outplayed Dirk in the 2011 Finals




How can it be WOAT production, if they outplayed the 1st option in the Finals??

[SCdac]

Duncan and Dirk were OUTPLAYED by their 2nd options in the Finals.



Manu outplayed Duncan in the 2005 Finals


Terry outplayed Dirk in the 2011 Finals




How can it be WOAT production, if they outplayed the 1st option in the Finals??

Why are you assuming 2005 was Duncan's worst supporting cast? ... Ginobili made his first AS game that season

2003 on the other hand... Duncan's best teammates were Stephen Jackson and second year Tony Parker

2003 Finals

Duncan - 24 ppg / 17 rpg / 5 apg (lead team for the playoffs) / 5 bpg / 44 mpg

Parker - 14 ppg (.39 FG%) / 4 apg

Robinson - 11 ppg / 7 rpg

Jackson - 10 ppg (.38 FG%)

Manu - 9 ppg (.35 FG%)

[3ball]

LeBron won a championship with this 2nd option production:

15.9 points 4.6 rebounds 4.8 assists 45.7% FG

Jordan won 3 rings with similar stats from his 2nd option - Pippen averaged 17/7/5 on 40.8% during entire 1996-1998 playoffs.

This included 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals (worst-ever for a 2nd option), and 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals.

Btw, Jordan's 3rd best player (Rodman) averaged 4/8 in 1997 playoffs and wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs (4/8 in 1998 Finals).. Lebron's never won a ring with a mediocre, role player 3rd option like Jordan did for all 6 of his rings.

[SCdac]

And Jason Terry has gotten hot and come up big in the playoffs (made 9 three's in one game to knock out the defending champ Lakers iirc?) ... but come on, is he even a top-80 player all time?

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan won 3 rings with similar stats from his 2nd option - Pippen averaged 17/7/5 on 40.8% during entire 1996-1998 playoffs.

This included 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals (worst-ever for a 2nd option), and 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals.

Btw, Jordan's 3rd best player (Rodman) averaged 4/8 in 1997 playoffs and wasn't even a starter in 1998 playoffs (4/8 in 1998 Finals).. Lebron's never won a ring with a mediocre, role player 3rd option like Jordan did for all 6 of his rings.

17/7/5 with GOAT defense >>> 15/4/4 on average defense




Jordan never won a single championship with as bad or worse 2nd option production than 2013 LeBron. Go ahead, post the stats.

[FreezingTsmoove]

17/7/5 with GOAT defense >>> 15/4/4 on average defense




Jordan never won a single championship with as bad or worse 2nd option production than 2013 LeBron. Go ahead, post the stats.

Wade was playing elite defense... look at what he did to Harden

[3ball]

17/7/5 with GOAT defense >>> 16/5/5 on average defense

Jordan never won a single championship with as bad or worse 2nd option production [COLOR="Red"]than 2013 LeBron[/COLOR]. Go ahead, post the stats.

So why did Lebron win the 2013 championship with playoff stats of 25.9/8.4/6.6, which would be the worst stats of Jordan's playoff career?

Clearly, Lebron had a super-ton of help in 2013 - infact, other than 2016 Cavs, the 2013 Heat were Lebron's most stacked team ever.. He had the 2nd best shooter ever (Ray Allen) as his FOURTH option and an 11-time all-star as his third option.. That's insane

[Dray n Klay]

So why did Lebron win the 2013 championship with stats of 25.9/8.4/6.6, which would be the worst stats of Jordan's playoff career?

Because LeBrons 26/9/7 was a Higher Proportion of his teams points/rebounds/assists, than Jordan ever achieved






Hence he was able to win with a worse 2nd option than Jordan ever had

[SCdac]

yeah, I don't think 2013 is a good example of Lebron carrying a weak team... they were arguably the best version of the those Heat out of all them.

At one point after getting a great shotblocker (birdman), they won a 27-game win streak, which is the second longest ever... and they had finally filled out their team (vs. 2011, with Bibby, Ilguaskas, Dampier, etc)

[SCdac]

and no comment on this? ... in 1999, Duncan's second best option was a post-surgery Robinson who averaged 17 ppg (.42 FG%) in the Finals, which was good, but not Magic-Kareem production for a duo

2003 Finals

Duncan - 24 ppg / 17 rpg / 5 apg (lead team for the playoffs) / 5 bpg / 44 mpg

Parker - 14 ppg (.39 FG%) / 4 apg

Robinson - 11 ppg / 7 rpg

Jackson - 10 ppg (.38 FG%)

Manu - 9 ppg (.35 FG%)

[Dray n Klay]

yeah, I don't think 2013 is a good example of Lebron carrying a weak team... they were arguably the best version of the those Heat out of all them.

So a 15/4/4 2nd option and a 12/6 3rd option isn't WOAT level bad??

[3ball]

Because LeBrons 26/9/7 was a Higher Proportion of his teams points/rebounds/assists, than Jordan ever achieved

That isn't true - Jordan scored a FAR higher proportion of his team's points than Lebron, while getting equal assists on a per possession basis in the playoffs thru 31 years old..

The only reason Jordan's assists were a lower proportion of his team's assists is because Jordan's teams had superior teamwork and more assists overall, which lowered Jordan's proportion of team assists.

Furthermore, the stats show that all of Lebron's key teammates (Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh, Love) saw their assists decline alongside Lebron, while Jordan's off-ball presence increased his teammates assists.. This obviously increases Lebron's proportion of team assists while reducing Jordan's, even though Jordan's assists were equal to Lebron's on a per possession basis.

[SCdac]

So a 15/4/4 2nd option and a 12/6 3rd option isn't WOAT level bad??

see: 2003 Spurs