Why do some fans rank Kobe Bryant ahead of Tim Duncan?

[Lebron23]

Duncan won 4 NBA titles as the no.1 option of his team. Timmy is also a 2x NBA MVP, and 3x Finals MVP. I actually rank Duncan ahead of Bird in the all time lists. The Spurs are a playoffs team since they drafted Duncan in the 1997 NBA Draft.

[It's A VC3!!!]

A LeBron fan who will do anything to devalue Kobe.

He has 5 rings.

People rank players based on preference combined with rings. That's how it's been and that's how it will always be.

Bill Russel has 11 rings. Yet there are a lot of people who don't classify him as a top 2-3 player. You give MJ 11 rings and nobody in the world would ever debate his ranking.

Again, Kobe and Duncan are both great top 10 players in NBA history.

[Deuce Bigalow]

2001, 2002, 2004, 2008.

[Lebron23]

A LeBron fan who will do anything to devalue Kobe.

He has 5 rings.

People rank players based on preference combined with rings. That's how it's been and that's how it will always be.

Bill Russel has 11 rings. Yet there are a lot of people who don't classify him as a top 2-3 player. You give MJ 11 rings and nobody in the world would ever debate his ranking.

Again, Kobe and Duncan are both great top 10 players in NBA history.

Finals MVP. Robert Horry is a 7x Champion. Prime John Havlicek was also a good NBA player. His team won 9 NBA Championships, but you never see some jerk offs rank him ahead of Hakeem and Bird. LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP. He's better than that @$$hole.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Finals MVP. Robert Horry is a 7x Champion. Prime John Havlicek was also a good NBA player. His team won 9 NBA Championships, but you never see some jerk offs rank him ahead of Hakeem and Bird. LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP. He's better than that @$$hole.

That's definitely true. There are a ton of players that end up turning invisible after they retire. Robert Horry will only be remembered for his crazy, lucky, miracle shots rather then his rings. I don't know why it's like that, and it sucks. LeBron will surely be remembered if he wins a ring or multiple rings. While other players won't.

[Vienceslav]

I

[Alamo]

Most people here rank Duncan ahead of Kobe. Where have you been?

[Artillery]

Most people here rank Duncan ahead of Kobe. Where have you been?

Yup.

3 Finals MVPs compared to 2 Finals MVPs
2 League MVP compared to 1 League MVP
If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year it just puts him even more ahead. Weirdly enough, his playoff PER is actually higher than Parker/Ginobili's so you could argue he's the best player on this team. He was definitely the best during the Clippers series.

[dynasty1978]

Look at the Lebron lovers trying act "objective" when it comes to Kobe and Duncan

When Lebron wins his 1st ring, these same idiots will have him ranked top 10.

Frankly, you can order Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan however you wish and I won't argue it.

Supplanting any of those guys in the top 10 is going take at minimum, 3 championships and 3 Finals MVPs.

Good luck with that.

[Odinn]

As for their primes and accomplishments;


As for longevity; (being best player in the L)
1997-98; Duncan was top 5. Kobe wasn't top 5.
1998-99; Duncan was the best. Kobe wasn't top5.
1999-00; Duncan was the 2nd. Kobe wasn't top 5.
2000-01; Duncan was top3. Kobe was top3.
2001-02; Duncan was top2(Shaq or Duncan). Kobe was top5.
2002-03; Duncan was the best. Kobe was top5.
2003-04; Duncan was the 2nd. Kobe was top5.
2004-05; Duncan was the best. Kobe wasn't top5.
2005-06; Duncan was top5. Kobe was the best.
2006-07; Duncan was top2. Kobe was top2. (po; Duncan - rs; Kobe)
2007-08; Duncan was top5. Kobe was the best.
2008-09; Duncan wasn't top5. Kobe was top3(2nd or 3rd, depends on Wade).
2009-10; Duncan wasn't top5. Kobe was top3(depends on Wade&Durant).
2010-11; Both of them wasn't top 5.
2011-12; Duncan isn't top 5. Kobe is top 5.

Duncan was a top 5 player for 11 straight seasons. Top 3 player for 8 seasons.
Kobe was a top 5 player for 10 seasons. Top 3 player for 6 seasons.

When their career are over, I think Kobe will have the edge on longevity. But right now, he doesn't have.

I'd take 2003 Duncan over any version of Kobe. As for peaks;
It's playoffs vs. regular season.
Kobe averaged 35.4 - 5.3 - 4.5 - 1.8 - 0.4 in 2005-06 regular season. He made the playoffs with one of the weakest supporting cast for a playoff team.
Duncan averaged 24.7 - 15.4 - 5.3 - 0.6 - 3.3 in 2003 playoffs. He made one of the greatest title(playoff) runs ever. He won it all with one of the weakest supporting cast for a championship team.
If we extend span, to 3 years, I'd rather have '01-'03 Duncan over '06-'08 Kobe.

Duncan has the edge on being a better playoff performer.

As for peak and prime; Duncan > Kobe. As for accomplishments/accolades; Duncan > Kobe. If Kobe gains the edge on longevity, still it'd remain debatable.

(I will make copy/paste in Duncan-Bryant threads until start of the 12/13 NBA season. )

[dynasty1978]

As for their primes and accomplishments;


As for peak and prime; Duncan > Kobe. As for accomplishments/accolades; Duncan > Kobe. If Kobe gains the edge on longevity, still it'd remain debatable.

(I will make copy/paste in Duncan-Bryant threads until start of the 12/13 NBA season. )

Nicely done, although I have to ask. Given Duncan's dominance and resume, how is he not ranked ahead of Bird (who many have top 6)?

It's like the elephant in the room that few want to address.

[Quickening]

Look at the Lebron lovers trying act "objective" when it comes to Kobe and Duncan

When Lebron wins his 1st ring, these same idiots will have him ranked top 10.

Frankly, you can order Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan however you wish and I won't argue it.

Supplanting any of those guys in the top 10 is going take at minimum, 3 championships and 3 Finals MVPs.

Good luck with that.

Why would Lebron need 3 FMVPs.. if he leads Miami to two championships, gets 2 fmvps... then he will like have 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps to Kobe 1 and 2.

Coupled with Lebrons superior numbers, taking a scrub team to the finals, he will definately go above Kobe in the rankings.

Kobe being carried to his first 3 championships doesn't mean a huge amount.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You have to put the rings into perspective.

Playoff runs:

Kobe Bryant
'00: 21.1-4.5-4.4-.470 eFG% (Championship)
'01: 29.4-7.3-6.1-.485 eFG% (Championship)
'02: 26.6-5.8-4.6-.459 eFG% (Championship)
'04: 24.5-4.7-5.5-.439 eFG% (Finals)
'08: 30.1-5.7-5.6-.514 eFG% (Finals)
'09: 30.2-5.3-5.5-.492 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'10: 29.2-6.0-5.5-.506 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)

Tim Duncan
'99: 23.2-11.5-2.8-.511 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'03: 24.7-15.4-5.3-.529 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'05: 23.6-12.4-2.7-.465 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'07: 22.2-11.5-3.3-.521 eFG% (Championship)

Even though Kobe didn't win Finals MVP in '01, that run was better than 3 of Duncan's ('99, '05, '07)
Plus Kobe has repeated multiple times, while Duncan has never.

[konex]

If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year

How exactly is Duncan the 2nd best player on this team?

[tpols]

Yup.

3 Finals MVPs compared to 2 Finals MVPs
2 League MVP compared to 1 League MVP
If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year it just puts him even more ahead. Weirdly enough, his playoff PER is actually higher than Parker/Ginobili's so you could argue he's the best player on this team. He was definitely the best during the Clippers series.

Thats like equating Rip Hamilton's ring with the Pistons in 04 to Kobe's in 09/10 or Dirk's last year, or Shaq's from 00 to 02.. just stupid. He's averaging 16/9 and thats likely to go down as competition goes up.