Most underrated achievement by LeBron: 2 time DPOY...

[Marchesk]

Wilt Chamberlain defensive win shares: 93.9 (47,859 minutes played)

Wilt's best defensive win share season: 10.7

Wilt's best playoff DWS: 2.0

[Im Still Ballin]

Wilt Chamberlain defensive win shares: 93.9 (47,859 minutes played)

Wilt's best defensive win share season: 10.7

Wilt's best playoff DWS: 2.0

Need to account for era specificity

The LeBron Kobe comparison is fine because they played in the same era

[Prime_Shaq]

LeBron a runner-up as an achievement? Seems like familiar ground for him

[tpols]

Lebron: leads slightly in RS statz, but gets styled on by likes of terry, marion, kawhi, iggy, etc. humiliated by anyone with a decent jumper.

Kobe: cruises through regular season, but amps up in the playoffs, takes tough assignments when necessary ie. rondo's, westbrooks, etc. leads by example.


shit aint close.

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron: leads slightly in RS statz, but gets styled on by likes of terry, marion, kawhi, iggy, etc. humiliated by anyone with a decent jumper.

Kobe: cruises through regular season, but amps up in the playoffs, takes tough assignments when necessary ie. rondo's, westbrooks, etc. leads by example.


shit aint close.

This is not what the data suggests.

[tpols]

This is not what the data suggests.

eye test, bro.

apply yourself.

[Im Still Ballin]

eye test, bro.

apply yourself.

This is also not what the data suggests

Clearly evident by the DPOY career votings

I covered objective as well as subjective measures

Your hypothesis is incorrect

Although not true subjectivity, DPOY rankings is about as close as we can get to an objective measurement of semi subjective measures

[guy]

LeBron a runner-up as an achievement? Seems like familiar ground for him

seriously. Lebron fans have brainwashed themselves to actually believing that 2nd place is just as good as 1st.

[ImKobe]

This is also not what the data suggests

Clearly evident by the DPOY career votings

I covered objective as well as subjective measures

Your hypothesis is incorrect

Although not true subjectivity, DPOY rankings is about as close as we can get to an objective measurement of semi subjective measures

tied for most defensive first teams in NBA history

finished top 5 in DPOY voting 3 times in his career

locked down prime AI for a whole half

when was the last time you saw Lebron play full court defense like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTITRJp2bhI

not many players had the ability to play full court defense like that.

[Marchesk]

tied for most defensive first teams in NBA history

finished top 5 in DPOY voting 3 times in his career

locked down prime AI for a whole half

when was the last time you saw Lebron play full court defense like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTITRJp2bhI

not many players had the ability to play full court defense like that.

All that's impressive, but Kobe just doesn't rate that high on the latest advanced defensive stat. He's no Hersey Hawkings.

[COnDEMnED]

Getting his shit pushed in by the J.J Mother ****ing Barea system is pretty underrated.

[ImKobe]

All that's impressive, but Kobe just doesn't rate that high on the latest advanced defensive stat. He's no Hersey Hawkings.

Defensive stats can be misleading of a player's individual ability. Lebron has played in the EC and on more stacked teams on that end that allow less points per possession. The Lakers were always decent but not elite on that end.

Larry Bird led the regular season in Defensive Win Shares 4 times in his career, 3 times in the Playoffs. Is he individually better than Lebron or Kobe on that end? Doubtful.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe 1996: Didn't place
Kobe 1997: Didn't place
Kobe 1998: Didn't place
Kobe 1999: Didn't place
Kobe 2000: 5th
Kobe 2001: 11th
Kobe 2002: 3rd
Kobe 2003: 8th
Kobe 2004: 10th
Kobe 2005: Didn't place
Kobe 2006: Didn't place
Kobe 2007: 24th
Kobe 2008: 5th
Kobe 2009: 7th
Kobe 2010: 12th
Kobe 2011: 11th
Kobe 2012: Didn't place
Kobe 2013: Didn't place
Kobe 2014: Didn't place
Kobe 2015: Didn't place
Kobe 2016: Didn't place

LeBron 2004: Didn't place
LeBron 2005: Didn't place
LeBron 2006: Didn't place
LeBron 2007: Didn't place
LeBron 2008: Didn't place
LeBron 2009: 2nd
LeBron 2010: 4th
LeBron 2011: 9th
LeBron 2012: 4th
LeBron 2013: 2nd
LeBron 2014: 6th
LeBron 2015: 13th
LeBron 2016: 11th

Kobe in years placed average position: 10th

LeBron in years placed average position: 6th

Kobe's best 5 years: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th (Average of 6th)

LeBron's best 5 years: 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th (Average of 4th)

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 50.7 (48637 minutes played)

LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 58.4 (38478 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: -0.6

LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +1.9

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5), is on par with LeBron's 8th best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5)

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 105
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 102

PLAYOFFS:

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 106
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 101

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 7.3 (8641 minutes played)
LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 12.8 (7871 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +0.7
LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +3.2

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4), is on par with LeBron's 5th best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4)

//

Even the most objective subjective analysis hands down favors LeBron

The only thing that won't favor LeBron is the opinion (subjective) of Kobe stans

LeBron is visually and empirically a better defender

[El Gato Negro]

A lot of people didn't notice but brans defensive numbers were right up there with kawhi this year.

[ImKobe]