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Consensus Top 20-30 AT
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
You'll have to remind me when Lebron had 0 all stars on his team from 11-14 & had to face a team in the finals with 3 all stars in the finals like Kobe did..
And please tell us how the 05,06,07,08 Lakers were all "approximately equal to the 2011-2014 HEAT"
The 2005-2007 Lakers were trash. The 2008-2011 Lakers were a great team. Look at what they did during that span:
57 wins, NBA Finals
65 wins, champions
57 wins, champions
57 wins, WCSF
They were, for the entirety of that period, the best team in the league in the same way the Heat were for the 2011-2014 period. Neither was the best team every year but they were excellent every year and had more success during that period than any other team.
And as for the 09 & 10 Lakers, relative to competition, the lakers only had 2 all stars.. Like many teams during this time did..
The Lakers were constructed differently. What made them great was having a superstar, a second all-star and a the best front line in the league with Gasol, Bynum (although he did nothing in the 09' and 10' playoffs), Odom and Artest (for 10' and 11'). They were more deep than top heavy.
The results speak for themselves. The Lakers were a mid-pack team and then became a great team. That didn't happen by accident. Kobe remained great--and actually he was worse in 2009 and 2010 than he was in 2006-2008--but he had something to work with.
When Paul Milsap and Hibbert are all stars the term 'all-star' doesnt mean much, especially in the east
Good point. I find it personally ironic to see so many Laker fans invoking the all-star argument these days. I remember repeatedly arguing with them in 2010 when Amare and Bynum were competing for an all-star spot and Laker fans then swore Bynum>Amare and deserved to be an all-star.
How many all-star teams would Bosh have in the West? At the PF position alone you had Griffin, LMA, Love and Dirk last year.
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big time kobe stan
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen
Wade averaged 23/6/5/1/1 in the 2012 finals
Bosh averaged 15/9
Battier averaged 12ppg on 85% TS
WTF are you talking about
Wade shot around 43%, which is inefficient as hell.
15/9 for Bosh? What is so impressive about that? Seems like Horace Grant playoff numbers to me.
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Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
I always liked Lamar Odom to be honest. Really underrated player, tons of talent.
Even though he never averaged 20 ppg a night, you always got the sense he could do that on any given night.
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NBA Legend
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Those talking about James' teammates would have a case.... if he didn't lead the Heat's last 3 postseason's in pts, boards, dimes and steals.
By lack of responses, safe to say no current top 10 had it worse their first 7yrs.
Last edited by Hey Yo; 08-11-2014 at 08:08 PM.
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#Treble
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by dubeta
What argument does Bird, Hakeem, and Wilt have over him?
Game on the line, 5s left. Who would you rather take the last shot - LeBron or Bird?
Exactly.
That is the SOLE REASON Larry Bird will always be ahead of LeBron. Larry embraces the moment while LeBron has a history of shying away from it.
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15x all nba legend
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
The 2005-2007 Lakers were trash. The 2008-2011 Lakers were a great team. Look at what they did during that span:
57 wins, NBA Finals
65 wins, champions
57 wins, champions
57 wins, WCSF
They were, for the entirety of that period, the best team in the league in the same way the Heat were for the 2011-2014 period. Neither was the best team every year but they were excellent every year and had more success during that period than any other team.
The Lakers were constructed differently. What made them great was having a superstar, a second all-star and a the best front line in the league with Gasol, Bynum (although he did nothing in the 09' and 10' playoffs), Odom and Artest (for 10' and 11'). They were more deep than top heavy.
The results speak for themselves. The Lakers were a mid-pack team and then became a great team. That didn't happen by accident. Kobe remained great--and actually he was worse in 2009 and 2010 than he was in 2006-2008--but he had something to work with.
Good point. I find it personally ironic to see so many Laker fans invoking the all-star argument these days. I remember repeatedly arguing with them in 2010 when Amare and Bynum were competing for an all-star spot and Laker fans then swore Bynum>Amare and deserved to be an all-star.
How many all-star teams would Bosh have in the West? At the PF position alone you had Griffin, LMA, Love and Dirk last year.
So basically you admit lying when you said Kobe had it better from 26+.
Thanks for going back on your original statement.
If Kobe from 26+ would have had the talent Lebron has had around him from 26+ then we'd be talking about Kobe as the GOAT.
Because as you said, Kobe was a better player from 06-08 than he was in 09-10, the difference being he actually had some talent around him in 09,10..
And as you said those Lakers teams accomplished a lot, even with an older, but still great Kobe who won 2 rings in a 3 year span before his body began to break down.
So just imagine Kobe with not just one all star, but two all stars from 05 to 10...
If Kobe was making finals with Pau as his only all star, imagine what the Lakers would have been doing with Kobe, and 2 guys who made the all star team every year from 05-09, and then got 2 new all stars in 2010..
So yes, Lebron has been extremely lucky to be able to HAND PICK 2 all star teammates every year since he entered his prime.
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15x all nba legend
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen
Then why didnt he?
And when will you realize that it doesn't matter if "x" would make the all star game in the west when discussing stacked teams?
Bran had a top 2 SG & a top 2 PF from the eastern conference by his side as he went through the eastern conference playoffs..
In 2011 Wade was the eastern conference starting all star shooting guard.. Bosh was the only PF selected (unless you count Melo as a PF)
Which means during the 2011 playoffs Lebron had the best shooting guard and the best power forward on his team in every single series he plays out east..
HUGE ADVANTAGE
...
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Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
...Top 10?
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big time kobe stan
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by GODbe
...Top 10?
Bout time you Kobe stans came back with a response to Corleone's famous pic. Not bad.
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NBA Legend
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
So...who's had worse coaches and teammates their first 7yrs that's in the top 10?
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Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
To be honest this is how it *should* work, top picks shouldn't be going to teams that are already quite good.
Like the Lakers getting the no.1 overall pick to take Magic? And then Worthy at no.1 overall too three years later? While having Kareem already there? Are you kidding me? This would be like the Bulls with Jordan and Pippen then scoring a no.1 pick to get David Robinson.
The Celtics of 1986 getting the no.2 overall pick? Len Bias never played but stuff like this just seems absurd to me.
No wonder there's only been like 5 franchises that ever win anything.
Unfortunately I think basketball has been mired by a lot of crappy GMs who get taken advantage of by the same few competent GMs over and over again.
Last edited by Soundwave; 08-11-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen
Then why didnt he?
And when will you realize that it doesn't matter if "x" would make the all star game in the west when discussing stacked teams?
Bran had a top 2 SG & a top 2 PF from the eastern conference by his side as he went through the eastern conference playoffs..
In 2011 Wade was the eastern conference starting all star shooting guard.. Bosh was the only PF selected (unless you count Melo as a PF)
Which means during the 2011 playoffs Lebron had the best shooting guard and the best power forward on his team in every single series he plays out east..
HUGE ADVANTAGE
Ok, and they beat the East every year
whats your point?
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Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by GODbe
...Top 10?
LOL the difference is Dragic's pic actually makes sense
ie. Shaq actually carried Kobe, Gasol had the most winshares, CP3 was robbed of MVP which many agree on etc.
This is just a pile of butthurt
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Consensus Top 20-30 AT
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by TheMarkMadsen
So basically you admit lying when you said Kobe had it better from 26+.
Thanks for going back on your original statement.
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Russell, Bird, Jordan, Magic, Shaq and Kobe all spent their 26+ years on teams superior to or approximately equal to the 2011-2014 Heat relative to their competition.
You misinterpreted my statement.
So just imagine Kobe with not just one all star, but two all stars from 05 to 10...
Yeah Kobe is like KAJ in that he spent several of his peak years on average or bad teams (Wilt also played on some not so great teams, one which went 33-49 but I think that was earlier in his career). This is partly why people need to lose the overemphasis on raw number of rings. Russell, Bird, Jordan, Magic and Shaq spent their entire peaks on contending teams.
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Dunking on everybody in the park
Re: Since LeBron will likely end up top 10, here's my question
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
The 2005-2007 Lakers were trash. The 2008-2011 Lakers were a great team. Look at what they did during that span:
57 wins, NBA Finals
65 wins, champions
57 wins, champions
57 wins, WCSF
They were, for the entirety of that period, the best team in the league in the same way the Heat were for the 2011-2014 period. Neither was the best team every year but they were excellent every year and had more success during that period than any other team.
Ok, so if a team is successful then it is stacked? So why not just say all successful teams are stacked?
Cavs in 2009 must have been pretty stacked then to have won 66 games and getting to the ECF.
Stacked doesn't mean the team will we be successful, seems like no one watched the 2013 Lakers.
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