Our bench

[bluechox2]

ima say it again, we need a pg who can pass

[franchize]

ima say it again, we need a pg who can pass

*The bench is a problem (no quality players wanted to come here Franchize. Cant blame Grunwald for this either because no one wanted to come here for Walsh either).

That's a lame ass excuse. I'm sorry. When did the Knicks become the Raptors? You act like people are avoiding us like the plague. C'mon dude. Signing Lin, Novak, Bibby, etc was our only resort? Stop it. Shawne Williams said his 1st choice was to stay with us. Call a spade a spade man. We went out and blew our load on the biggest name in free agency and strapped ourselves financially. So your saying even if the price was right, guys wouldn't have come here? Bullshit. I SAW the video with CP3 when he said he wanted to be a Knick. The only reason he isn't a Knick a is because we have no assets to offer NO and he didnt want to stay the whole season. I agree with all your points except this one. The bench is absolutely a problem and 75% of that is Grunwald's fault. The other 25% is D'Antoni's fault for thinking you can get specialists and play them major minutes. This isn't football. You don't have blitz packages. Either a guy can play or he can't and we have too many guys on our bench who CANNOT PLAY! We have a team full of Aaron Maybins. Problem is, you can't sub these guys in and out only for pass rush situations lol There are teams right now with guys making chump change and producng at a high level and WE'RE NOT ONE OF THEM!

[Rameek]

That's a lame ass excuse. I'm sorry. When did the Knicks become the Raptors? You act like people are avoiding us like the plague. C'mon dude. Signing Lin, Novak, Bibby, etc was our only resort? Stop it. Shawne Williams said his 1st choice was to stay with us. Call a spade a spade man. We went out and blew our load on the biggest name in free agency and strapped ourselves financially. So your saying even if the price was right, guys wouldn't have come here? Bullshit. I SAW the video with CP3 when he said he wanted to be a Knick. The only reason he isn't a Knick a is because we have no assets to offer NO and he didnt want to stay the whole season. I agree with all your points except this one. The bench is absolutely a problem and 75% of that is Grunwald's fault. The other 25% is D'Antoni's fault for thinking you can get specialists and play them major minutes. This isn't football. You don't have blitz packages. Either a guy can play or he can't and we have too many guys on our bench who CANNOT PLAY! We have a team full of Aaron Maybins. Problem is, you can't sub these guys in and out only for pass rush situations lol There are teams right now with guys making chump change and producng at a high level and WE'RE NOT ONE OF THEM!

[COLOR="Navy"]So you were on board to get Stat for 18 mill, you were on board to trade everyone for Melo and give him 18 mill. Unless the CBA was going to increase the cap which all knew it wasnt who honestly thought CP3 was going to get here. So you have 2 guys that took max deals (unlike Miami). They make a good basketball move by getting a center at a high price 14 mill. This means you have roughly 51 mill tied up in 3 players.

You have veterans minimum and mid level exception. Last year we had similar money only to save cap space for Melo. No one wanted to come here thats on Walsh's watch.

This year same situation no one wants to come here. Miami has some room most players wants to go down there. They have 3 guys that have good basketball IQ's play hard every night. They will win.

Obviously like I said before over the years and people were in here talking garbage about people want to play in NY for enough ridiculous reasons that not true. Players know winning situations when they see one. Paychecks, Winning, and Minutes is what drives this league.

Bdiddy, Boomdizzle chose NY because of his ego and a starting gig with no challengers.[/COLOR]

[franchize]

[COLOR="Navy"]So you were on board to get Stat for 18 mill, you were on board to trade everyone for Melo and give him 18 mill. Unless the CBA was going to increase the cap which all knew it wasnt who honestly thought CP3 was going to get here. So you have 2 guys that took max deals (unlike Miami). They make a good basketball move by getting a center at a high price 14 mill. This means you have roughly 51 mill tied up in 3 players.

You have veterans minimum and mid level exception. Last year we had similar money only to save cap space for Melo. No one wanted to come here thats on Walsh's watch.

This year same situation no one wants to come here. Miami has some room most players wants to go down there. They have 3 guys that have good basketball IQ's play hard every night. They will win.

Obviously like I said before over the years and people were in here talking garbage about people want to play in NY for enough ridiculous reasons that not true. Players know winning situations when they see one. Paychecks, Winning, and Minutes is what drives this league.

Bdiddy, Boomdizzle chose NY because of his ego and a starting gig with no challengers.[/COLOR]

I'm no flip-flopper.MY stance hasn't changed.I am still COMPLETELY in favor of getting Melo and Amare. They aren't the problem. I was COMPLETELY against signing Tyson Chandler for that huge contract. I don't get how Grunwald gets a pass. Instead of being smart and getting a decent center and using the rest to get an upgrade at one of the guard positions, he spent all the money we'd tank seasons to save and used it on Tyson Chandler. This is NOT a "big 3". We have 2 stars and a pretty good center who's getting allstar money.

This nonsense that players were running away from NY is simply not true and you have no evidence of it. Bottom line is, we didnt get quality guys because we wasted our money. Instead of bringing back Shawne Williams, we brought back Jeffries. Instead of saving money and a roster spot until we found some talent, we brought in guys like Novak and Lin off waivers. Instead of getting some of the young, athletic talent with that 2nd round pick, we got Harrellson "because he hustles". These are the stupid moves that continue to plague the Knicks but fans always want to focus on the stars everytime we begin to struggle. Amare, on an off night, can get you 25. Jeffries may not score 25 points all year.

It's the Malik Rose,Charles Smith,Chris Duhon,Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson, Michael Doleac, Charlie Ward, Othella Harrington, Travis Knight, Luc Longley, Jerome James, Moochie Norris, Antonio Davis, Steve Francis, Mardy Collins, Jerome James, Dan Dickau, Felton Spencer acquisitions that ruin rosters year after year. The media and fans only want to focus on the stars' attitudes instead of the real problems.

I want everyone to think of this before next offseason, when guys who have produced in the league get mentioned, and you think about turning up your nose. I'd KILL to have T-Mac at this point on our team. Remember how many threads we had about how Marbury was a cancer? Well @ his worst he was lightyears better than Toney Douglas. Remember our losses to the Bobcats and the Raptors the next time you want us to bring in another "energy guy" and a guy who's "not that bad for 5 minutes of play". Next time you think of bringing in a guy for shooting 3's or "leadership" despite the fact that they can't actually play. Remember how gassed your stars looked at the end of games and how theyre forcing shots because a contested shot from them is still a higher percentage than putting it in the hands of guys like Mike Bibby.I hope for everyone's sake, myself included, this season does one thing...Wakes people up! Fans, media, GMs etc. You can't sign names, put bums around them and get mad when they fail at trying to do everything themselves.

[franchize]

Read a stat today that said we're dead last in bench scoring. I'll ask this again, are you convinced yet?

[knickscity]

Read a stat today that said we're dead last in bench scoring. I'll ask this again, are you convinced yet?

Kinda like the Heat were last season, starters playing a lot.

Not that our bench is great, but no one off the bench plays more than 15 minutes.

[PistolPete]

Read a stat today that said we're dead last in bench scoring. I'll ask this again, are you convinced yet?

Gotta give it a few weeks I think once Douglas starts coming off the bench more often.

It's times like these where missing out on Shawne Williams and Jamal Crawford hurt us.

[bluechox2]

our bench...sucks

[knickscity]

No matter how bad the bench is, overall the guys who have played, have at least been a positive out there.

No one thought Harrellson would even make the rotation, but has been arguably the most consistent player on the team, especially from a defensive standpoint.

Walker has played overall decently as well, and I would seriously consider putting him in the starting SG spot.

At least we know he won't avoid shooting like Fields is doing.

Douglas has been completely destroyed by D'antoni.

We wasn't this bad last season, but that failed experiment of starting at pg ruined him.

The bench needs work true enough, but it is what it is at this point.

[franchize]

The bench needs work true enough, but it is what it is at this point.

You're sloooooowly starting to come to your senses lol


I don't blame the guys for being who they are. They're are playing exactly how they've played their entire career. The only guy on the bench that's been a disappointment is Douglas. He's actually gotten worse in a time we needed him to get better. I think people misinterpreted my direction with my OP. It isn't to rant and rave about our bench not playing well. The woes of our bench actually isn't our benches fault at all. It's on the GM. This is a poorly constructed team. None of the parts really fit,especially the head coach.

[Rameek]

[COLOR="Navy"]If I see another complaint about the bench somewhere I am going to shoot people.

Cant fix this without money (cap space) or winning.[/COLOR]

Not you Franchize but the game thread on the main board.

[bluechox2]

whats sad is the pacers and sixers are better than us at this point
Cleavland is not too far behind in passing us in standings (half game)
and were supposed to be a changed team, for what?
we got the lower end of the superstar market, just knicks luck

[Rameek]

[COLOR="Navy"]Whining gets nothing done. Man up.

Trade David Lee for nothing in return, trade 4 starters for Melo. No picks No cap space.

Let's stop the whining already. It is what it is.

Only 2 FA's considered the Knicks this offseason Grant Hill rejected twice and Crawford.

[/COLOR]

[Scoooter]

Douglas has been completely destroyed by D'antoni.

We wasn't this bad last season, but that failed experiment of starting at pg ruined him.

He's always been a mental midget. I'm glad the pressure of throwing a few passes instead of chucking up contested threes ruined him, now they can get rid of his weak-minded ass.

[Scoooter]

[COLOR="Navy"]Whining gets nothing done. Man up.

Trade David Lee for nothing in return, trade 4 starters for Melo. No picks No cap space.

Let's stop the whining already. It is what it is.

Only 2 FA's considered the Knicks this offseason Grant Hill rejected twice and Crawford.

[/COLOR]

Neither of whom would have helped any.