Was Bird the worst defender to ever be on the All NBA Defensive team?

[Go Getter]

Never disrespect the Legend.

[Bigsmoke]

Never disrespect the Legend.

I wasnt disrespecting but just wondering....

[bizil]

Bird was a SF-PF. Not really a SF-SG or swingman type like many of his peer's in the 80's golden era of SF's. As a matter of fact, he may have been THE ONLY one whose secondary spot was PF CLEARLY. So if u consider him guarding PF's (which he played often in his career) then that makes a huge difference. I think he was a good defender at PF and an average at best at SF. And in the team defense or help defense facets, he was very good. Just like Magic was in the backcourt. Neither were great man on man defenders. And I think straight up man on man D separates the truly great defenders from everybody else. But Bird on PF's worked out good in his era.

[La Frescobaldi]

@shaqisgoat

Since title of the thread is about whether or not Bird is the worst defender ever named on all nba defensive team..let's look at the list of players selected to the ALL NBA team, not some offshoot list,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Team


there are several names on the list that I'm not familiar with pre-1980 but allow me to assume that some of the more obscure names are of guys who were primarily known for being defenders (and that's how they stayed in the league)

Pre- MJ...outside of your superstar centers...it was rare for a player to be thought of as a stellar two way player. Walt Frazier being the most clear exception.....so I'm going to assume that the names on the all nba team that I don't recognize are your defensive specialist type of guys....earlier versions of Cooper/Bowen or Rodman/Wallace types .


Now....Bird as a defender is being judged/rated against the other players on the list..whether by position or not. No offshoot list..no derivation using other stats..just the list of players selected to all nba defense.

Who would YOU say is a worse defensive player than Larry Bird? and specifically which forwards?

bringing some weight into the thread along with shaqisgoat.

you mention Frazier among non-centers but he's not actually the 'most clear exception' that would be John Havlicek who once again is criminally disregarded on ISH.

Havlicek anywhere at half court destroyed transition offenses from the time I started watching NBA around 1966-67 right up until about '76 when that laser edge finally left his step and it became just razor sharp. He was deadly fast, ran, ran, ran..... and maybe the smartest player I ever saw and that my friend includes A LOT of NBA watching. He was such a threat he would be on the far side of the court and just kill fast breaks with a single step. The NBA lived in fear of that dude's defense. His man to man skillset still should be studied everywhere as one of the foundations of good defense. Hands always correct, legs always correct, fiercely physical at the correct times, master of the double team, & he could invent traps just out of the air. Given the nature of the game has changed over the years, no 3 ball back then, zones are allowed now, and so forth.

As I say that, to this day Clyde Frazier is my all-time favorite player that dude was just incredibly skilled and one of the very very few players who had no flaw in his game. But Hondo was something all right.

On the subject of Bird? Sure he was great at defense. These guys that say he was covering the weaker threat either didn't watch much 80s hoops or just caught the tail of his career. Also though, too, KC Jones was a master of defensive strategy and understood right down to his fingertips that you don't burn out your best scorer on D.... his energy level has to stay high for offense too!

[get these NETS]

@shaq

was waiting for response

[cltcfn2924]

idea of ANY of those 1980s beast small forwards making all defense is a joke

great..perhaps greatest era for small forward play (offensively)..but NONE of those guys played defense.....except for moncrief


idea that bird was a good help defender....is a joke

people see a highlight reel of Bird making key steals in the playoffs and accept that he was a good help defender

those 1980s threes abused each other and all played matador defense..including and especially Larry Bird

Bird averaged 8.0 defensive boards a game along with 1.7 steals. I submit you're the joke.

[cltcfn2924]

It's most definitely BS. Just the fact that Bird always drew the opposition's worst scoring forward and Mchale took the better one regardless of position.

Ive never checked. But if Larry Bird was really the second best or top 4 defensive forwards of the early 80s then thats doesn't say much for defense at that time

Your post says you weren't there. Why are you posting. Did you ever even see these guys play?

[chocolatethunder]

No. Chris Paul has 3 all defensive first teams. Let that sink in.

Also, Clifford Robinson made teams, and I always thought he was a particularly lousy defender than got exposed on backdoor cuts all day. Reminds me of Melo and Durant in that regard.

No, that would be Ben Wallace.

[pauk]

Well it was 2nd all-defensive, for a short time, he played smart & put alot of effort, helping, boxing out, rebounding, hustling and was great reading the passing lanes...

[Owl]

First off being the worst player wouldn't mean you're a bad defender, just worse than an elite group of defenders.

Then there's a distinction between worst choice (which is probably a star, later on in their career getting it when they didn't deserve it) and also looks at the level of competition and who should have been in that year, and the worst defender, which might imply worst career wide defender, which is probably a guy who just made one team.

Also are we just talking first team?

Anyway Michael Williams made an all-D 2nd team just by being a gambler. Michael Ray Richardson made the first team the same way. I used to like Josh Smith but he always looked a lot better on the boxscore than on the court in terms of D, so he's probably amongst the bottom end of All-D defenders.

[joeyjoejoe]

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous]Shaq made a few and he was downright bad defensively in a few aspects for his entire career. Just an awfull PnR defender even when he was in shape. He had a few years where his rebounding and shot blocking were excellent thought, although even then not usually on the specialist level.

And Karl Malone made a bunch. I watched a ton of Karl Malone, and I just don't get that at all. He was a decent on ball guy, but beyond that not much. I'd take Bird as a defendeefender

Malone deserved them

[PJR]

Larry Hughes 2005 selection was the first to come to mind. Just awful. Raja Bell is another one (was never that good).

[get these NETS]

Bird averaged 8.0 defensive boards a game along with 1.7 steals. I submit you're the joke.

Rick Barry averaged a full 2 steals per game...

was he a better defensive player than Bird?

was Rick Barry a good defensive player?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Magic was worse

[pudman13]

was Rick Barry a good defensive player?

Like most intensely focused, hustling players, yes.