Michael Jordan and other players admit Zones are harder to score

[ProfessorMurder]

All you need to break a zone is a jumpshot. Wow so tough.

[T_L_P]

I love Zone. At the very least, it stops giving offenses a huge advantage (clear-outs are fcking painful to watch).

I just want hand-checking back.

[juju151111]

Didn't broken down Mj avg 22 ppg on 45% and had a 50 PT game.

[dunksby]

It allegedly 'stopped' T-mac but these are just quote mines and there's some extremely important context, and other-side-of-the-spectrum quotes/examples missing.

Pete Maravich for example, averaged 44ppg against zones. Without a damn 3 point line.

There's obviously holes in this video makers agenda. Zone is not an end all be all superstar stopper or w/e he's trying to make it be. It's just a different type of defense. It makes certain ways of scoring more difficult... makes other ways of scoring EASIER. Oscar Robertson has summed it up best. You get easier 3 point shots and layups against a zone. Any superstar can make this adjustment. Heck, any professional player can make that adjustment, and they all did when the NBA adopted the zone.

I do wish they'd get rid of it too though. Zone covers up a lot of shitty individual defensive talent. I want to see these guys play one on one more. If you can't play your guy, you're gonna get toasted period. That's what I want to see. Just my opinion.

It's just a defensive scheme, why should they get rid of it? If a team wants play zone and accepts what comes with it then let them be. NBA zone defense is a limited version anyway.

[Asukal]

All you need to break a zone is a jumpshot. Wow so tough.

There's one who understands how a zone works.

All these retards who think a zone can stop MJ...

You don't see teams utilizing a zone defense in crunch time, it's not that hard to beat. You just need good passing, cutters, and good shooters.

[TheMan]

Lol, you could totally tell who are the Bran stans in this thread pushing the zone defense = GOAT defensive scheme myth. Simpletons, explain why if it's legal it's not used that much by NBA teams? It has it's drawbacks you imbeciles, a team that can pass the rock can break down the zone and easily get wide open shots and lay ups. It is also a defense that get's your team out of defensive rebound position, giving up extra shots negates the penetration to the lane the zone is designed to stop. That's why NBA teams don't use it that often.

It's somewhat effective against Bran because he's a ball dominant player and often times dribbles way too long and ends up with a bail out pass to a teammate, dude has a shit off the ball game (and he still doesn't have a reliable jump shot, he often goes cold in big games). And when did zones stop the elite scorers like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, TMac, Durant, Harden, Westbrook etc? All those guys are inferior to Jordan, the zone defense wouldn't stop him, if you really believe that, then you're all dumber than I previously thought.

And calling for 3Ball to come into this thread just shows he's living in your heads...rent free

[3ball]

OP's article omits the part that says paint-camping WILL BE BANNED under the new rules - in 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...mendations-nba
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[juju151111]

This article gets cut off before the part about paint camping - in the 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...mendations-nba

At 40 years old Mj still averaged 20 on 45% and 6 rebs. That's better then people who claim to be great players today.

[StephHamann]

There's one who understands how a zone works.

All these retards who think a zone can stop MJ...

You don't see teams utilizing a zone defense in crunch time, it's not that hard to beat. You just need good passing, cutters, and good shooters.

Worked on Lebron 2011

[3ball]

OP's article omits the part that says paint-camping WILL BE BANNED under the new rules - in 3rd sentence of the 3rd paragraph it says:

"The proposals also include a defensive three-second rule to prevent teams from stationing a big center, like Dikembe Mutombo, at the basket all game."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...mendations-nba

At 40 years old Mj still averaged 20 on 45% and 6 rebs. That's better then people who claim to be great players today.

everybody knows that that already though.

what they didn't know was how OP's article discussed paint-camping, and how the new defensive 3 seconds rule was designed to ban paint-camping.

OP didn't want us to see that part of the article though, so the article was cut-off in the right spot.
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[Im so nba'd out]

Its harder to score against a zone than man 2 man defense and water is wet.What is the point of this thread everyone already knows this?

[3ball]

So ultimately, it just depends on what topic the players are being asked about - if you ask Jordan, McGrady and Duncan about zone, they say it makes defenses tougher... Ask them about spacing, defensive 3 seconds, or the ban on hand-checking/physicality, and they say it makes defenses weaker. These things all offset each other.

The funny thing about the whole discussion is that new fans erroneously lump Jordan in there with stiffs that don't play off-ball like Lebron and McGrady. They either forget or aren't aware that while Jordan had GOAT primary ball-hander ability, he played primarily off-ball. Off-ball players BENEFIT from zone defenses. i.e. off-ball players on the weakside benefit during strong side floods when the weakside is left a defender down.

Btw, the NBA only allows a zone OUTSIDE THE PAINT. Inside the paint, defenders must abide by the defensive 3 seconds rule instituted in 2005, and therefore stay within armslength of an offensive player at all times. Staying within armslength is the very definition of man-to-man defense - indeed, the rules dictate that today's defenders play man-to-man defense at all times when inside the paint.

Keep in mind that a defender's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is a huge 16 feet by 19 feet, so defenders must hug their man even when their man is already inside the paint. Hug your man or get out of the paint - those are today's rules. In previous eras, there was no armslength requirement and defenders could "camp" in the lane even when their man was far out of armslength reach.

Intuitively, the ability of today's defenses to play zone defense only outside the paint is more than offset by spacing, as well as the new rules in 2005 that banned hand checking and instituted a new defensive 3 seconds rule. The raw stats in 2005 reflected the rules changes, as league-wide offensive rating increased the most it ever had since the 3-point line was introduced, while the scoring of all perimeter players went through the roof.
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[Dr.J4ever]

All on video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q

Pretty much agree with everything in the video, but more importantly this is exactly what Coach Thibs was talkin' about. Not really surprising as Thibs is one of the best defensive minds in the game. In the video, the "satellite" big man was the one Thibs was referring to.

I also liked the part in the video where it's explained where good coaches from the 80s would expose the old Illegal Defense Rule by bringing out their bigs around the 3 point area, even bigs who couldn't shoot a lick, just to expose the illegal defense a particular defensive team was playing. I mentioned this before as a particular tactic the 76ers would do during the 80s as a way to help out the Doctor, but I was called a liar by someone in this thread whose name shall be withheld.

But really though, this is among the reasons why comparing eras is difficult and in the end, not conclusive. Each era evolved strategies and players to combat existing rules to provide what they believed at the time to be the most efficient way of playing basketball.

Yes basketball from each decade looks different from one another, but in the end no decade was really better than any other. Each era stands on it's own as unique and great.

[3ball]

I also like where good coaches from the 80s would expose the old Illegal Defense Rule by bringing out their bigs around the 3 point area, even bigs who couldn't shoot a lick, just to expose the illegal defense a particular defensive team was playing.

Yes basketball from each decade looks different from one another, but in the end no decade was really better than any other. Each era stands on it's own as unique and great.

the video describes the rules incorrectly because it's a hard set of rules for most people to understand, and most people aren't smart enough to read the minutia and comprehend rules correctly.

when a big man is at the top of the key behind the 3-point line, the defensive rules are the same as they are today - the defender can't dip down below the FT line into the paint for more than 3 seconds.

it's no different, but you have to be able to both read and comprehend the rules to see that.
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[sekachu]

Its harder to score against a zone than man 2 man defense and water is wet.What is the point of this thread everyone already knows this?

It's harder for guys who don't have explosiveness and quickness against zone which you seem to be one of them