Kawhi vs Pippen defensively

[3ball]

I've posted two gifs, so this is indisputable evidence that Jordan was overrated on defense

It's hilarious how guys post gifs of Iverson crossing Jordan, and Jordan almost blocking his shot... and now Kobe hitting a tough shot over Jordan's great defense.

Your gifs show Jordan playing great defense.. Jordan rarely got blown by, whereas Pippen routinely did - infact, your 2nd gif shows Pippen getting blown by actually... I should've used that one in my previous posts.. Jordan was just coming over to help on that one.

It's amazing - I show clear gifs of Pippen getting destroyed, and you respond with gifs of MJ playing great defense and guys making near-impossible shots... good job bud... you really showed me... ...

[hitmanyr2k]

This is actually a really hard question.

Kawhi plays with a better inside defender than Pippen ever had namely Tim Duncan - even in his declining years Timmy's still better than a lot of the league. Light years of smart play, wrecking the passing lanes, ideally located to smash a play, and so forth.

But yet Rodman.

Pippen played alongside a better perimeter defender than Leonard ever had namely Michael Jordan - even in his declining years i.e., after '96, Jordan was still better than a lot of the league.

There's just not any Spurs guy that can make a rebuttal like Rodman can for the Bulls inside D.

Really Pippen played with some stronger defensive players, see, even than the Spurs have had. So team defense isn't really any kind of fair comparison.

Leonard has famously stopped the best in his League, while Pippen.... notoriously could not stop Bird... that was early days for Pippen granted but no version of Pip could stop Larry Bird. Jordan couldn't do it either. Could Leonard do it? I'd be skeptical.... this is a real close thing right here.

That's all well and good but Pippen's best defensive seasons ('94 and '95) were without Jordan. His absolute best defensive season ('95) was without Jordan, Horace, Rodman, Cartwright, or Scott Williams on the team. Chicago's interior defense was shit but Pippen still anchored that team to the 2nd best defense from the SF position anyway as their leading rebounder, shotblocker, etc.

[La Frescobaldi]

That's all well and good but Pippen's best defensive seasons ('94 and '95) were without Jordan. His absolute best defensive season ('95) was without Jordan, Horace, Rodman, Cartwright, or Scott Williams on the team. Chicago's interior defense was shit but Pippen still anchored that team to the 2nd best defense from the SF position anyway as their leading rebounder, shotblocker, etc.

we already talked about that

[Smoke117]

That's all well and good but Pippen's best defensive seasons ('94 and '95) were without Jordan. His absolute best defensive season ('95) was without Jordan, Horace, Rodman, Cartwright, or Scott Williams on the team. Chicago's interior defense was shit but Pippen still anchored that team to the 2nd best defense from the SF position anyway as their leading rebounder, shotblocker, etc.

Pippen was so dominant and spent so much energy defensively in that 95 season that they would say how he was too exhausted at the end of games to finish of a team offensively...how many other superstars can you say that about...that they cared more about defense than offense? None. There were also no perimeter superstars as great as he was on defense either.

[diamenz]

3ball just wreaks of insecurity.

[dhsilv]

if you're barely playing half the game, or significantly less than half the game like KG and Bogut then how much impact are you really having on the game??

five of the top 10 in that stat don't even play 25 minutes per game

the best players are playing 35-38 minutes that's less than 80% of the game. I fully get why you want to discount a player for less minutes and I fully agree with that! If you notice espn.com also has a stat called WAR based on the RPM, that factors in your wins above replacement which is based on minutes played and that real plus minus values. So they already include that so you can scale down a player who you feel is over valued. But they don't dismiss the guy, they adjust him down which is fair. If you want to add an additional bump in your assessment when you evaluate a guy, you can do that too. You just should post your reasoning and while a few trolls might be *****, most of us will listen and try to assess if you made a good case or not. I mean look, I LOVE Tim Duncan, but even I'm not ready to call him defensive player of the year with a massive lead in the defensive metrics with him playing so few minutes. I might change my mind if he's this far ahead in a few months but I doubt it.

Now is he an all defensive team kinda guy? So far I don't think his minutes will hurt him if he keeps ups this level of play (I doubt he can).

[dhsilv]

Rodman was well along in his decline but still elite - just like Timmy has been with Leonard, see?
If I had to choose between those two I'd prolly bite right through a rough rope lariat trying to get it right. Of course all-round there's no comparison at all but those guys are right there at the very top when it comes to defense - even on aged legs.
Kawhi with Duncan in his glory days????? I could see them keeping teams under 60 points on the regular lol
And imagine Pippen with earlier Rodman??? same thing see

We're talking right here about guys that play the game at the highest levels for a fact

Rodman doesn't have the impact on his teamates that a Duncan has. Rodman was an insanely good defender but he wasn't the rim protector and I'm sorry I just value that more. Rodman was also an amazing offensive rebounder, it isn't like ALL his rebounds were defensive.

Rodman at least with the bulls was much more a great rebounder and great man defender. He wasn't a guy who could cover ground and help his teammates as much as Duncan or really any elite team shot blocker.

[dhsilv]

Yeah I know...Rodman didn't deserve his either frankly. Hakeem should have been the DPOY 88-90 and Robinson in 91. Hakeem Olajuwons 1990 season is the best defensive year by any player ever in the modern era and they gave it to Rodman...

In rodman's defense he might have been better in 92...and didn't win it.

[dhsilv]

Jordan didn't deserve his either. Neither did Kawhi if we're being completely honest. Green was >Kawhi last season. Mainly because he played all the games.

I'm not sure about green, now Duncan imo was clearly the better player defensively if we're looking at game count and minutes played.

[Smoke117]

In rodman's defense he might have been better in 92...and didn't win it.

LMFAO...David Robinson had the 2nd greatest defensive season in the modern era of basketball in 92 after Hakeems 90, so you can get the **** out of my face with that nonsense. If you actually think Rodman should have been DPOY over Robinson in 92...we have nothing to discuss further because you're a ****ing retard.

[dhsilv]

LMFAO...David Robinson had the 2nd greatest defensive season in the modern era of basketball in 92 after Hakeems 90, so you can get the **** out of my face with that nonsense. If you actually think Rodman should have been DPOY over Robinson in 92...we have nothing to discuss further because you're a ****ing retard.

just said he had a better season.....than his prior two.

Honestly I'm not going to try and rank defensive seasons in that era as I don't remember it, alive yes, but remember? **** no. I don't know if I'm reliable osmetimes 10 years ago, let alone in 92! But defense is still even today hard as hell to rank. Back before we even had good defensive stats?

Though there was was a game and minute gap...big enough to talk about, but again my point was never rodman was better.

[Smoke117]

just said he had a better season.....than his prior two.

Honestly I'm not going to try and rank defensive seasons in that era as I don't remember it, alive yes, but remember? **** no. I don't know if I'm reliable osmetimes 10 years ago, let alone in 92! But defense is still even today hard as hell to rank. Back before we even had good defensive stats?

Though there was was a game and minute gap...big enough to talk about, but again my point was never rodman was better.

David Robinson was absolutely the best defensive player in the world in the 92 season, period.

[sundizz]

David Robinson was absolutely the best defensive player in the world in the 92 season, period.

And arguably the best ever. Though Shaq daddy treated him like a backyard brawler.

Only people that did decent against Shaq were the ones with the natural size + strength to move him/stand their ground occasionally. Power/strength players like a Robinson or Dwight had absolutely no chance. No amount of working out can stop that sort of innate power base.

[Teanett]

And arguably the best ever. Though Shaq daddy treated him like a backyard brawler.

Only people that did decent against Shaq were the ones with the natural size + strength to move him/stand their ground occasionally. Power/strength players like a Robinson or Dwight had absolutely no chance. No amount of working out can stop that sort of innate power base.

Shaq was a rookie in '92. No way he had his way with the Admiral then.
He started dominating him later.

[Smoke117]

Shaq was a rookie in '92. No way he had his way with the Admiral then.
He started dominating him later.

For all those youngsters out there...Robinson regularly outplayed Shaq in the 90s. Shaq is the "MDE" against the like of an old sabas, Robinson, Hakeem etc in the early 2000s. He wasn't even close to being considered as dominant going against Hakeem and Robinson in their primes in the mid 90s