Wilt 1967 Finals Free Throw Percentage - 30% (22/72)

[ClipperRevival]

Yes, 22/24/4 on 50% shooting is atrocious. You are correct, sir. That is clearly worse than MJs 33/6/6 on 49%.

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.

[kshutts1]

Agreed. Plus, it's not even 22/24/4 on 50%, it's 23/24/4 on 52%.

No clue where I got my 50% from. Fail by me But if we're rounding up his 22.5 to 23, then we must round up his 24.5 to 25.

23/25/4 on 52%

[CavaliersFTW]

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.

Correction: Zero players have ever even come close to what Wilt did when given green lights to score. Not MJ, not Kareem, not Kobe. Nobody has ever even gotten close. And they have certainly had the opportunities to try.

[kshutts1]

Relative to his regular season production, it's historic how much his production drops off. Hakeem shits on Wilt's playoff numbers with 25.9 career and 27.9 finals.

Wilt did most of his damage his first 6 years in the league, when he averaged 32.5 shot attempts per game and averaged 40.6 ppg with a shitty team. He had a green light to shoot more than anyone in history. Many dominant players can put up empy stats if you give them the green light on shitty teams. Starting his 7th year, when he played for teams with talent, he averaged a measley 21.7 ppg until he retired. I am not making this stuff. It's in black and white. Dude was overrated and a choker.

Hakeem? Sorry, I must have missed him... probably because he's only in my second tier...

26/11/3 on 53%.

Please show me where he "shits on" Wilt's playoff numbers. I'll wait.
Please be sure to point out the fact that Hakeem averaged 3 more ppg and 1 additional percentage point, and please feel free to conveniently leave out Wilt's gigantic lead in rebounds, and likely gigantic lead in blocks.

[ClipperRevival]

Stat padder or not, he still accepted the reduced scoring role and later on, even the Bill Russell role, in order to win, which isn't a trait of selfish stat padders, let alone losers. Why did Wilt accept to ever change his role had he been such an egoist and, even more so, why didn't he use his team's 1968 loss as an excuse to return to scoring big? Why did he ever want to play in LA, while knowing that he'd join a team that already had 2 great scorers and that would have a big toll on his stats?
Obviously he didn't care about winning.

He has all these records but never once led his team in scoring when ne won a title. That just doesn't sound right. 2nd leading scorer in 1967 and 4th leading scorer in 1972. He won fmvp in 1972 if you can believe it. Overrated, stat padding choker.

His off the chart rebounding numbers is nothing but a result of him being a legit 7'1" without shoes with long ass arms and athleticism. Anyone with his traits can grab boards.

[kshutts1]

And, as for the "historic" drop off in production, who the hell cares? In fact, that alone shows how dominant Wilt was as an individual. Even after said "historic" drop off in product, he's the best statistical playoff performer.

[ClipperRevival]

Correction: Zero players have ever even come close to what Wilt did when given green lights to score. Not MJ, not Kareem, not Kobe. Nobody has ever even gotten close. And they have certainly had the opportunities to try.

Please. None of them took even close to the amount of shots Wilt took his first 6 years in the league. Only guy close is Barry. No one had the green light to just go get his like Wilt and it's not even close. I am not making this up. It's all there in black and white.

[T_L_P]

And, as for the "historic" drop off in production, who the hell cares? In fact, that alone shows how dominant Wilt was as an individual. Even after said "historic" drop off in product, he's the best statistical playoff performer.

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.

[kshutts1]

Please. None of them took even close to the amount of shots Wilt took his first 6 years in the league. Only guy close is Barry. No one had the green light to just go get his like Wilt and it's not even close. I am not making this up. It's all there in black and white.

Rick Barry?
His highest FGA per game was 28.7 His highest FG% (different season than FGA) was 51%.

Wilt? His lowest FGA per game in his first 6 seasons (your criteria) was 28.5. Nearly identical. His lowest FG% was 46% in his rookie year. Mind you, I said LOWEST. After that, Wilt's second lowest FG% was 51%, just like Barry's HIGHEST.

So.. volume or not, what Wilt was able to accomplish is extraordinary. The volume itself, actually, makes it more extraordinary, as he maintained a very high, especially relative to league average!!!, FG% even with that ridiculous volume.

I can understand someone arguing that Wilt was not a great player; I disagree, but I can understand that. What I can't understand is someone arguing that Wilt was not the most dominant individual ever.
You claim pace? Look at his stats relative to league average.
You claim titles/wins? Look at relative strength of teammates/coaches.

Are we making excuses? I suppose. But only because we feel forced to by those individuals that refuse to wrap their heads around Wilt's numbers because it seems too unreal, too unfair.

[kshutts1]

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.

Why are we adjusting for pace? Wilt didn't get to choose his era, nor did MJ.

Everyone in Wilt's era played with the same pace, just as everyone in MJs era.

On top of that, with MJ playing a slower pace than Wilt, why then was not able to play a similar number of minutes? And be equally effective? It's very interesting that this man, Wilt, that towered over all those other tiny white guys was also the most well-conditioned player in the league. Fascinating.

[ClipperRevival]

Wilt's finals ppg avg is 18.7. This guy got worse as the stakes got higher.

Hakeem on the other end got better as the stakes got higher. 22 ppg reg season, 25.9 ppg playoffs and 27.5 ppg finals (6th all time).

That's what "the man" does. Come up big when it matters.

[ClipperRevival]

Rick Barry?
His highest FGA per game was 28.7 His highest FG% (different season than FGA) was 51%.

Wilt? His lowest FGA per game in his first 6 seasons (your criteria) was 28.5. Nearly identical. His lowest FG% was 46% in his rookie year. Mind you, I said LOWEST. After that, Wilt's second lowest FG% was 51%, just like Barry's HIGHEST.

So.. volume or not, what Wilt was able to accomplish is extraordinary. The volume itself, actually, makes it more extraordinary, as he maintained a very high, especially relative to league average!!!, FG% even with that ridiculous volume.

I can understand someone arguing that Wilt was not a great player; I disagree, but I can understand that. What I can't understand is someone arguing that Wilt was not the most dominant individual ever.
You claim pace? Look at his stats relative to league average.
You claim titles/wins? Look at relative strength of teammates/coaches.

Are we making excuses? I suppose. But only because we feel forced to by those individuals that refuse to wrap their heads around Wilt's numbers because it seems too unreal, too unfair.

Only an idiot would claim he wasn't great. He obviously was. But he was flawed. The more I dig deeper into his career beyond just the raw numbers and see more and more flaws.

[T_L_P]

Why are we adjusting for pace? Wilt didn't get to choose his era, nor did MJ.

Everyone in Wilt's era played with the same pace, just as everyone in MJs era.

On top of that, with MJ playing a slower pace than Wilt, why then was not able to play a similar number of minutes? And be equally effective? It's very interesting that this man, Wilt, that towered over all those other tiny white guys was also the most well-conditioned player in the league. Fascinating.

Why? Because otherwise we'd be talking about Walt Bellamy's rookie season (31/19) more than any of Duncan's or Garnett's.

And you know why we don't? Because we know those stats are inflated. Defenses had barely developed yet, and a large amount of the time teams weren't even playing it at all.

Go back and watch some Wilt footage. Half the time defenders don't contest, and every now and then you'll see teams start running up the court because the shot even leaves his hand.

Jordan couldn't play 48 MPG because he didn't stay in during blowouts all the time. Why would he risk injured/fatigue by staying in a decided game like Wilt did? To pad his stats for 15 years?

Also, he couldn't play 48 MPG because he had to compete on defenses a lot more, and he actually had to run up and down the court; not just slow-jog it.

[Psileas]

22.5 PPG (in 47 MPG) on teams that routinely scored 110+ PPG, adjusted for pace, around 15 RPG, 4 APG.

I don't really see how that can beat Jordan's 34/6/6 on slower teams.

1. 22.5 doesn't tell the whole story, considering he played 2/3 of his playoff games when he reduced his scoring. In most of his postseasons, he was averaging either way more than this number or a number very close to this, but combined with a shitload of rebounds, assists and blocked shots. Plus a smaller number of Bill Russell-like figures, which are still outstanding, ignoring scoring.

2. Wilt's playoff rebounding, even pace adjusted, isn't equal to 15 rpg, more like 17 rpg.

3. Pace adjustment affects team scoring as well. You can't apply pace adjustment and leave team scoring as it is. So, even if you take his 22.5 ppg and adjust for pace, you'll get a figure that is actually more impressive than what it looks like in the first place.

4. You adjusted for pace for Wilt, but not for Jordan. Do you think 1980's or 90's stats (esp. 80's) don't have statistical sectors that need adjustment?

5. Pace is mostly irrelevant for bigs' scoring. Wilt wasn't out there jacking shots in the first 5'' of his team's possessions. Especially older Wilt taking 10-15 shots per game in a reduced scoring role isn't going to need to take even less shots just because the "pace" is lower, since the vast majority of his shots is taken in 5 vs 5 conditions.

[kshutts1]

Wilt's finals ppg avg is 18.7. This guy got worse as the stakes got higher.

Hakeem on the other end got better as the stakes got higher. 22 ppg reg season, 25.9 ppg playoffs and 27.5 ppg finals (6th all time).

That's what "the man" does. Come up big when it matters.

Some people will always move goalposts; they'll never admit that their previous view may have been misinformed, or incorrect, but rather they'll change the argument as a whole.