kareem vs russell -- who is the greatest player of all time?

[Psileas]

Like I said I am a big Wilt fan. But if one of those guys went 1 for 11 from the line, and his team lost a championship. He would be ripping said player.

Maybe he would, and it's an actual fact that some have blamed Wilt for this (so, they are as bad as Laz in your scenario), but he would be wrong (and so are they). That game was a blowout, the final score doesn't do justice, and even the final score still wouldn't be covered by even a perfect 11-11 FT shooting.

[CavaliersFTW]

I think he causes a lot of the onslaught against Wilt. I agree Russell was a bad free throw shooter, but it didn't cost his team championships like Wilt did.

Magic and Bird weren't good one on one defenders. But they weren't the worst ever. Its not even about that, its about how he twist facts to degrade every other player but will not apply the same standard to Wilt.

Like I said I am a big Wilt fan. But if one of those guys went 1 for 11 from the line, and his team lost a championship. He would be ripping said player.

Disagree entirely, there are people who refuse to give Wilt the credit and praise he is due as a GOAT candidate and try to slam him for numerous fabrications and exaggerations whether they are aware of Laz's existence or not. Take Bill Simmons for example. The guy only told half truths and made up criticisms out of thin air in order to slam the legacy of Wilt to prop up the legacy of Bill Russell, not that that should have even been necessary. But he did it, and the book was unfortunately a huge success and people who don't know any better trust his BS, as I hear it spread everywhere on the net and in other sports writers articles, not just here on ISH. We need more fans like Laz, who are not afraid to challenge fabricated or exaggerated criticisms towards players like Wilt.

[CavaliersFTW]

How does every critic of Wilt's free throw percentage forget Bill Russell's?

Also, most of them haven't got a clue about the 1 to make 2 and 2 to make 3 rule in Wilt's era, and how that dramatically increased the effectiveness of guys who weren't great at the line like Wilt and Russell vs how the game is played today. They got extra chances to make a free throw when they missed. They weren't "costing teams championships" with their free throw shooting.

If Wilt goes to the line for a 3 point And-1 style play and he misses the first shot ... he gets another try. Even as a lowly 50% free throw shooter he's statistically likely to always convert on 3 point plays. It might show up on a stat sheet as 1 for 2 ... but he technically was likely to be "perfect" on completing the play and getting the maximum amount of points possible on 3 point opportunities.

If Wilt goes to the line for 2 free throws getting fouled before a shot, he's got not just 2 chances to make points, but 3. If he misses any one of his first two shots (or both) he's still got a 3rd chance to hit a shot. If he's a 50% free throw shooter, it means he (over the course of his career) averaged 1.5 points every time he was fouled before a shot. Even if it shows up as 3 for 6. This is huge in increasing his impact at the line, his percentages don't reflect this.

[DatAsh]

Disagree entirely, there are people who refuse to give Wilt the credit and praise he is due as a GOAT candidate and try to slam him for numerous fabrications and exaggerations whether they are aware of Laz's existence or not. Take Bill Simmons for example. The guy only told half truths and made up criticisms out of thin air in order to slam the legacy of Wilt to prop up the legacy of Bill Russell, not that that should have even been necessary. But he did it, and the book was unfortunately a huge success and people who don't know any better trust his BS, as I hear it spread everywhere on the net and in other sports writers articles, not just here on ISH. We need more fans like Laz, who are not afraid to challenge fabricated or exaggerated criticisms towards players like Wilt.

Lets be honest, guys like Deuce, Millwad, and the small force of recent anti-Wilt band wagoners only disparage Wilt to antagonize Laz. Then you have the army of one-line-heroes, who again are only there to antagonize Lazerus.

I can only think of one knowledgeable and influential anti-Wilt poster that was here before Jlauber/Lazerus, but as far I can tell he no longer posts here - and hasn't for several years.

There are a couple guys I'm for which I'm not entirely sure of their motives, but I wouldn't necessarily call them Wilt bashers.

[DatAsh]

My only real problem with Lazerus(though I stopped reading his posts long ago) is that he's constantly disparaging other players(especially Bird and Hakeem).

He's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to stats from that era, but he could do a better job at sharing that knowledge.

[ArbitraryWater]

My only real problem with Lazerus(though I stopped reading his posts long ago) is that he's constantly disparaging other players(especially Bird and Hakeem).

He's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to stats from that era, but he could do a better job at sharing that knowledge.

I remember excitedly reading jlauber's posts when I found them for the first time.. Now its just blah blah blah, especially after so much of his shit has been exposed.

[CavaliersFTW]

Lets be honest, guys like Deuce, Millwad, and the small force of recent anti-Wilt band wagoners only disparage Wilt to antagonize Laz. Then you have the army of one-line-heroes, who again are only there to antagonize Lazerus.

I can only think of one knowledgeable and influential anti-Wilt poster that was here before Jlauber/Lazerus, but as far I can tell he no longer posts here - and hasn't for several years.

There are a couple guys I'm for which I'm not entirely sure of their motives, but I wouldn't necessarily call them Wilt bashers.

True for ish, but from my YT channel and accounts on other boards I encounter a lot of other people that are dishonestly critical of wilt or wilts era elsewhere on the net. Fatal9 is the poster you speak of btw, is he not? The guy who used to call Wilt clumsy looking and uncoordinated in the post due to his own upload of wilts missed shots in the 64 and 67 game halves?

[colts19]

My only real problem with Lazerus(though I stopped reading his posts long ago) is that he's constantly disparaging other players(especially Bird and Hakeem).

He's a very knowledgeable guy when it comes to stats from that era, but he could do a better job at sharing that knowledge.

That's what I was saying until everything got twisted around.

[Asukal]

Jlauber is a poser. His low understanding of the game apart from stats is even more evident when he said Russell didn't do anything in that 1969 4thQ footage. The only reason why a lot of people here disparage Wilt now is because of him. Good job lauber.

[c5terror]

MJ

Please. Anyone who has teammate inside top 10 all-time on his championship run doesn't deserve to be the GOAT

[Pointguard]

True for ish, but from my YT channel and accounts on other boards I encounter a lot of other people that are dishonestly critical of wilt or wilts era elsewhere on the net. Fatal9 is the poster you speak of btw, is he not? The guy who used to call Wilt clumsy looking and uncoordinated in the post due to his own upload of wilts missed shots in the 64 and 67 game halves?

I don't think its Fatal9. Fatal9 was gone before Datash came aboard. Fatal9 seemed to go shortly after I arrived and he was more like a basher. More than likely he's talking about ShaqAttack or Regul8r who weren't haters of Wilt but would sometimes seemingly underestimate him.

[DatAsh]

I don't think its Fatal9. Fatal9 was gone before Datash came aboard. Fatal9 seemed to go shortly after I arrived and he was more like a basher. More than likely he's talking about ShaqAttack or Regul8r who weren't haters of Wilt but would sometimes seemingly underestimate him.

I was talking about Fatal9 :)

[Pointguard]

I was talking about Fatal9 :)

My bad. You obviously used some adjectives that threw us off. And he left before you were posting. Did you lurk for a couple of years???

Have to ask, are you fatal9?

[ArbitraryWater]

Fatal9..

ShaqAttack

And me in the Abraham Lincoln Gimmick.. Ah good days.

[Pointguard]

Fatal9..

ShaqAttack

And me in the Abraham Lincoln Gimmick.. Ah good days.

Right, you as Abe.