Top 10 players in the League

[DMAVS41]

Parker is a better playmaker than his assists indicate because spurs rely a ton on swinging the ball and not just iso kick outs.


Kobe turns the ball over more, but is unquestionably better at setting his teammates up, running a PnR, handling the ball on the perimeter etc. He's ebtter for a flowing team offense. Melo is too stand still.. hes been on one top 5 offense in his entire career and it didnt even come when he was on those nugget teams( and had plenty of offensive help).

He really doesnt do a lot at all to help his guys.. for someone who sees as many doubles and defenders thrown at him as he does.. 2 asists per game in the playoffs??? That is atrocious. He doesnt know how to find the open man and his style of play discourages his teammates from cutting since it would shift the defense and make it harder for him to score in iso.

You just answered your own question...Melo doesn't dance a lot with the ball like Kobe. They use up possessions similarly...but Melo doesn't dance with the ball as much as kobe does. he's off the ball more often. so of course Kobe is going to pile up more assists, but more turnovers as well.

Do Melo's extra 2 to 3 rebounds per game not count either? If we are just counting up raw stats....are Kobe's assists and more turnovers per usage more valuable than Melo's superior rebounding?

The fact that you think there is a gap between Melo and Kobe on your criteria you have laid out in this thread from 2011 to present is hilarious.

And what are you talking about I can't see the difference in playmaking? I said Kobe was definitely better. Just like Melo is definitely a better rebounder. At 7.7 to 4.2 in the playoffs in the time we are discussing. Why does that mean nothing?

LOL

[tpols]

The criteria I've laid out is that parker and Kobe can be great team players and facilitators in addition to their scoring while melo is a one trick pony. I also brought up all nba selections which have both kobe and parker ahead of melo, factually.



You have now resorted to bringing up something outside of offensive play, since you saw my arguments were consistent, in an attempt to argue melo over both of them.. which is comical, because I've never seen Melo take over games with rebounding the way kobe/parker have with their playmaking.

Melo grabs a lot of defensive boards on some of the worst defensive teams in the league who have had countless injuries to their best rebounding big men.. The knicks just came off a season where they were 27th best rebounding team in the league.. yea Melo's really controlling those boards.

Gdamn.. where would you be w/o your stats

[DMAVS41]

The criteria I've laid out is that parker and Kobe can be great team players and facilitators in addition to their scoring while melo is a one trick pony. I also brought up all nba selections which have both kobe and parker ahead of melo, factually.



You have now resorted to bringing up something outside of offensive play, since you saw my arguments were consistent, in an attempt to argue melo over both of them.. which is comical, because I've never seen Melo take over games with rebounding the way kobe/parker have with their playmaking.

Melo grabs a lot of defensive boards on some of the worst defensive teams in the league who have had countless injuries to their best rebounding big men.. The knicks just came off a season where they were 27th best rebounding team in the league.. yea Melo's really controlling those boards.

Gdamn.. where would you be w/o your stats

Dude...you can't argue that Melo's rebounds are less valuable when Kobe doesn't play with a real pg...and when he has...he's ****ing taken steve nash of all people off the ball.

Where would I be? ROFL...this is priceless.

Kobe is an iso wing player. He has never been now nor ever a great playmaker...and neither has Parker.

Melo and Kobe are wing iso players and while Kobe is a better playmaker...it's not who he is...everything you have written about Melo could be accurately written about Kobe.

You are trading a 2 or 3 more assits per game for 2 or 3 more rebounds per game...and doing so at the cost of more turnovers.

This is what people like you don't get...since game 6 in 2010 NBA finals. Kobe has been Melo. That is who he is now...yet you can't admit that because it kills everything for you.

It's why deep down you know Parker isn't better than Melo...because if he is...then that means he's better than Kobe. And you know you don't believe that...

So you are stuck...stuck trying to prop up a guy that has averaged 2.3 more assists per game in the time period we are talking about...while also boasting a real difference in terms of higher turnover rate.

It's hilarious and anyone with a brain sees the double standard. You don't get to just focus on one thing and then laugh off everything else. I want to know why it's fair to attack Melo's playmaking (even though that isn't his game nor should it be as basically a pseudo power forward) and then not attack Parker's inept rebounding. If we aren't judging them at their position, which we clearly aren't, why do you laugh off the fact that Melo is averaging 3 more rebounds per game than Kobe and nearly 5 more rebounds per game than Parker.

That doesn't matter?



You honestly sound like those moronic Rose stans that said Rose is better than Dirk because he can penetrate better. I swear it's like you people don't understand positions. Kobe is a ****ing guard man...Melo is a hybrid 3/4 type player. One should be a better playmaker...one should be a better rebounder. You get that...right?

Anyway...lets try another example. Was Harden the last two years better than Kobe was from 11 through present?

He's got the playmaking down. The scoring down. The iso stuff down. The efficiency down.

Why was Kobe 11 through present Kobe better than Harden????????

Also, is Parker better than Harden?

What about Curry vs Kobe? Curry is a far better playmaker...and his range shooting does things to a defense that old Kobe really doesn't honestly. 24/9/4 61% TS...isn't that better than the iso win scoring that you hate so much?????

[MellowYellow]

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Griffin
Westbrook
CP3
LMA
Love
Howard
Noah

[Mr. Incredible]

OP gets owned once again.

[tpols]

No im trading truly dynamic team offensive players for a isolation player who takes too many shots..


Its not about the 2 or 3 assists more.. its about how they get the offense running and involve everyone. Its a whole dynamic. Kobe and parker are absolutely great playmakers.. and have taken over games with their playmaking. Melo very rarely does that.



What it all boils down to is.. when has melo's rebounding been a game changer? When has it been something that took over games? I've honestly never even noticed it.

I see Westbrook skying for boards being extremely aggressive.. grabbing 8 a game for a point guard.. now thats a game changer on the boards. Reminds me of what J-Kidd used to do. Melo grabbing a few extra defensive boards on shit teams defense and rebounding wise? Eh its never made much of a difference.

You're literally using numbers from series the knicks were swept in and destroyed on the boards in to argue that Melo's rebounding should be some sort of tiebreaker when it really isnt. Stats though. All about them stats in a vacuum.

7 and a half boards for a forward logging a ton of minutes isnt changing anything. And its not like hes some defensive stalwart whose expending energy everywhere, or has a crazy nose for the ball and seeks out hard to get rebounds.. that part of his game is just.. meh. It isnt even noteworthy.



Meanwhile Tony Parker is one of the greatest playmakers in the game today.. Is melo one of the greatest rebounders? Not even close.





But yea youre right.. Melo's monster on the board performances eclipse his complete inability to run an efficient team oriented offense.

You've completely thrown in the towel with this rebounding nonsense.. the knicks have been one of the worst rebounding teams in the league year in and year out. LOL

[DMAVS41]

No im trading truly dynamic team offensive players for a isolation player who takes too many shots..


Its not about the 2 or 3 assists more.. its about how they get the offense running and involve everyone. Its a whole dynamic. Kobe and parker are absolutely great playmakers.. and have taken over games with their playmaking. Melo very rarely does that.



What it all boils down to is.. when has melo's rebounding been a game changer? When has it been something that took over games? I've honestly never even noticed it.

I see Westbrook skying for boards being extremely aggressive.. grabbing 8 a game for a point guard.. now thats a game changer on the boards. Reminds me of what J-Kidd used to do. Melo grabbing a few extra defensive boards on shit teams defense and rebounding wise? Eh its never made much of a difference.

You're literally using numbers from series the knicks were swept in and destroyed on the boards in to argue that Melo's rebounding should be some sort of tiebreaker when it really isnt. Stats though. All about them stats in a vacuum.

7 and a half boards for a forward logging a ton of minutes isnt changing anything. And its not like hes some defensive stalwart whose expending energy everywhere, or has a crazy nose for the ball and seeks out hard to get rebounds.. that part of his game is just.. meh. It isnt even noteworthy.



Meanwhile Tony Parker is one of the greatest playmakers in the game today.. Is melo one of the greatest rebounders? Not even close.





But yea youre right.. Melo's monster on the board performances eclipse his complete inability to run an efficient team oriented offense.

You've completely thrown in the towel with this rebounding nonsense.. the knicks have been one of the worst rebounding teams in the league year in and year out. LOL

Jesus christ dude...you can't go on and on about Kobe's assists and then shrug off rebounds.

It's the exact same thing...position is determining it!

Kobe is an iso wing scorer that is absolutely not a great playmaker...stop acting like Parker/Kobe are ****ing steve nash.

They aren't. Melo is a wing scorer that plays off the ball a lot...I don't think you even know what type of player Melo is. He is not dribbling the ball up and running pick and rolls all the time.

That isn't his game. He's a smaller version of Dirk...or at least prime Dirk that played with the ball more...you are comparing apples and oranges.

Please answer;

Harden vs Kobe
Curry vs Kobe

[tpols]

If you dont think Kobe and especially Tony Parker are great playmakers, you honestly know nothing about basketball.




Steve Nash is one of the greatest playmakers ever.. all time.. hes literally like top 5 GOAT in that category. Just because they arent Nash doesnt mean they havent had great impact in that category. Thats like saying someones not a great basketball player if they arent as good as MJ...

[DMAVS41]

If you dont think Kobe and especially Tony Parker are great playmakers, you honestly know nothing about basketball.

If you think they are...you don't know basketball.

Kobe could be argued as such for his position, but it would be semantics likely.

James Harden and Curry are every bit the playmakers Parker and Kobe have been over the last 3 years

Chris Paul is a great playmaker in the way you are using the term. Kobe and Parker are absolutely not great set up guys...I know you want them to be ...but they aren't.

And no...I'm not saying they need to be Nash...I'm saying you are acting like they are. Big difference.


Why do you ignore everything you said about melo when it comes to Kobe?


Again though...please answer the question about Harden/Curry and I'll add Paul vs Kobe.

[dubeta]

Wade is EASILY top 5.

When you factor Offence, Defence, scoring efficiency, and intangibles, you cant name 5 players better. Westbrook is more inefficient and ballhog IQ, Curry cant play D or score as efficiently, and CP3 is only better than Wade at passing, and lacks play-off intangibles.

[MellowYellow]

Wade is EASILY top 5.

When you factor Offence, Defence, scoring efficiency, and intangibles, you cant name 5 players better. Westbrook is more inefficient and ballhog IQ, Curry cant play D or score as efficiently, and CP3 is only better than Wade at passing, and lacks play-off intangibles.

Wade is also playing with a stacked roster centered around Lebron, I am curious to see what he would be like as the number one on a team. He certainly wouldn't be anything close to 09 Wade.

[Young X]

Parker "being a top 10 player" just shows how weak this league is in terms of star power right now.

If Parker's a top 10 player, why doesn't he get the same amount of criticism that other star players get? Why isn't he held to similar standards? Where are the hate threads? Why don't I see multiple threads talking about how overrated he is when he has terrible games?

When the Clippers got eliminated their were tons of "Paul is overrated" type threads. Whenever he had bad games or made crucial mistakes Skip Bayless was on 1stTake with "CP0" jokes the next day.

When Paul George plays terrible I see tons of "George isn't a superstar" kinds of threads. Where are Parker's?

Don't even need to talk about Bron or KD when they have bad games or their teams lose cause we all know this place is unbearable when it happens. Same thing with Harden, same thing with Dwight.

Parker on the other hand has a 9/4 game, his team gets blown out and nobody says anything. He has a terrible finals series and nobody says anything.

He's averaging 17/6 on 55 TS% in the regular season and 18/5 on 52 TS%/101 ORTG in the playoffs. Inefficient with no defense or rebounding to make up for it. He had a 0 pt game where he only played 10 minutes and his team still won in a closeout game against Portland. That's not top 10 play or impact.

[DMAVS41]

Parker "being a top 10 player" just shows how weak this league is in terms of star power right now.

If Parker's a top 10 player, why doesn't he get the same amount of criticism that other star players get? Why isn't he held to similar standards? Where are the hate threads? Why don't I see multiple threads talking about how overrated he is when he has terrible games?

When the Clippers got eliminated their were tons of "Paul is overrated" type threads. Whenever he had bad games or made crucial mistakes Skip Bayless was on 1stTake with "CP0" jokes the next day.

When Paul George plays terrible I see tons of "George isn't a superstar" kinds of threads. Where are Parker's?

Don't even need to talk about Bron or KD when they have bad games or their teams lose cause we all know this place is unbearable when it happens. Same thing with Harden, same thing with Dwight.

Parker on the other hand has a 9/4 game, his team gets blown out and nobody says anything. He has a terrible finals series and nobody says anything.

He's averaging 17/6 on 55 TS% in the regular season and 18/5 on 52 TS%/101 ORTG in the playoffs. Inefficient with no defense or rebounding to make up for it. He had a 0 pt game where he only played 10 minutes and his team still won in a closeout game against Portland. That's not top 10 play or impact.

[The JKidd Kid]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Westbrook
4. CP3
5. Griffin
6. Dwight
7. Curry
8. Love
9. Paul George
10. LMA