Who played better?... MJ in 1996 Finals or Lebron in 2013 Finals

[3ball]

This one is also better than Lebron's 2013:

1987 Magic
26.2 8.0 13.0 .541fg% 24 out of 25 from the line!

And all of MJ's Finals, including his 27/5/4 on 42% in 1996.

MJ didn't need a bail out shot to prevent him from losing - he got a 3-0 lead by averaging 32 ppg on 46% and coasted the rest of the series with 22, 26, and 23 points..

C'mon, you've never coasted before?

[Lebron23]

Lebron James. Heat beat a superior team in the finals.

[Gileraracer]

Not Mr 27%

[3ball]

Lebron James. Heat beat a superior team in the finals.

96' Kemp > 13' Duncan


96' Payton > Parker


Schrempf > Kawhi


96' McMillan < but probably = 2013 Ginobili


1996 Sonics Defense 102.1 almost same as Spurs 101.6, but way more physical.
.

[Naero]

Impactually, I'd nod a marginal edge to LeBron for his all-around level of play; but either way, it is insubstantial to the Michael Jordan-LeBron debate. It's not equitable to compare the then-33-year-old, post-prime Michael Jordan to then-28-year-old, pinnacle-prime LeBron; at some point, cross-compared players need to be held to discrepant standards when you account the physical state of them, because the bread and butter of a player's value lies in their prime

[plowking]

Lebron 2013
25.3 10.9 7.0 .447fg%

Bird 1984
27.4 14.0 3.6 .484fg%

Bird 1986
24.0 9.7 9.5 .482fg%


I think you might have to argue that one.

Pretty nuts how a somewhat "off" series for Bron really does stack up nicely against both Bird and Magic, who played in quicker and more high scoring series generally.

[Cocaine80s]

[QUOTE=Naero]Impactually, I'd nod a marginal edge to LeBron for his all-around level of play; but either way, it is insubstantial to the Michael Jordan-LeBron debate. It's not equitable to compare the then-33-year-old, post-prime Michael Jordan to then-28-year-old, pinnacle-prime LeBron; at some point, cross-compared players need to be held to discrepant standards when you account the physical state of them, because the bread and butter of a player's value lies in their prime

[Lebron23]

Impactually, I'd nod a marginal edge to LeBron for his all-around level of play; but either way, it is insubstantial to the Michael Jordan-LeBron debate. It's not equitable to compare the then-33-year-old, post-prime Michael Jordan to then-28-year-old, pinnacle-prime LeBron; at some point, cross-compared players need to be held to discrepant standards when you account the physical state of them, because the bread and butter of a player's value lies in their prime—longevity being legacy-enhancing at later ages, obviously, but not ultra-essential.

Moreover, when you contextualize the defenses each player faced, it's more absolvatory when you consider that Michael Jordan's team faced a much better defense. That was evident by the fact that Jordan—even in the worst FG% finals of his career, whereby two of his games came against one of the GOAT perimeter-oriented defenders in Gary Payton—still managed to lead most of his team in TS%; the same can't be said for LeBron, despite how the sag-off defense gave him more gimme looks than any other perimeter-oriented superstar in NBA history—clean-eyeshot looks that other all-time-great perimeter players would beg for.

If anything, when you account for the age differential and discrepant defensive intensities of each team that I've expounded on, I would consider Michael Jordan's '96-finals performance more impressive.

It still remains to be seen how LeBron—who just amassed the third-most missed shots in a finals series—will perform past his prime in the finals, and don't you dare compare any of his finals to any of Michael Jordan's first-threepeat finals performances.

You try hard to Sound Smart.

[3ball]

and don't you dare compare any of his finals to any of Michael Jordan's first-threepeat finals performances.

Or his 1997 - game 1 GW.. flu game.. series-winning assist to Kerr... Or his 1998 - best clutch ever

Also, lets not forget DEFENSE - Jordan's defense destroys Lebron's - all of Lebron's defensive assignments are role players, yet they get FMVP... Whereas MJ's defensive assignments are Magic and Drexler, and also KJ, Payton, and Stockton.. No fmvp for those guys.

When you consider defense, the gap between MJ and Lebron's Finals performances is HUGE (like the gap between 6/6 and 2/6).

[feyki]

Lebron played better. But Lebron was 28 years old , Jordan was 32 years old.

There is 28 years old Jordan ;

36 pts , 5 rib , 6.5 ast , with %61.7 TS against most athletic team of 90's .

[Lebron23]

Lebron played better. But Lebron was 28 years old , Jordan was 32 years old.

There is 28 years old Jordan ;

36 pts , 5 rib , 6.5 ast , with %61.7 TS against most athletic team of 90's .

People here are dumb, or suffering from short term memory. They easily forget that Lebron was 18 yrs.old when he played in the NBA while Jordan was 21 going 22 yrs.old.

LeBron at age 28 already had more mileages in his body. And this guy was an NBA starter, and played major minutes since he was 18.

[feyki]

People here are dumb, or suffering from short term memory. They easily forget that Lebron was 18 yrs.old when he played in the NBA while Jordan was 21 going 22 yrs.old.

LeBron at age 28 already had more mileages in his body. And this guy was an NBA starter, and played major minutes since he was 18.

Yes , this is big advantage for Lebron , like Karl Malone superb longevity. But 32 years old is 32 years old , all physical talents are damaged from olds . Can Iverson jump 1 meter(40 inches) high at now?

[3ball]

Lebron played better. But Lebron was 28 years old , Jordan was 33 years old.

But compared to 28 years old Jordan:

36 pts , 5 rib , 6.5 ast , with %61.7 TS against most athletic team of 90's .

This is wrong - Jordan WON the series in the first 3 games with great stats, and then coasted in garbage time... Lebron played shitty the first 3 games and was severely exploited by the opponent, and then needed a miracle shot later in the series to give him a 2nd life.

You're penalizing MJ for winning the series early, which makes no sense.. And when you consider defense, it's not even close..

Infact, when you consider defense, the significant gap that already exists between MJ's career Finals stats and Lebron's becomes even bigger - all of Lebron's defensive assignments are role players, yet they get FMVP... Whereas MJ's defensive assignments are Magic and Drexler, and also KJ, Payton, and Stockton..
.

[Elosha]

Let's be clear about a few things in the context of the 96 Finals. While 96 was Jordan's worst final performance by a considerable margin, it likely had more to do with Jordan and the Bulls taking their eyes off the prize a bit after going up 3-0 rather than Payton's incredible defense. To be honest, Jordan destroyed Payton in game 3 for 36 points (Payton guarded him plenty in that game), but for some reason Jordan and the Bulls took their foot of the gas and played way too relaxed in the next two games in Seattle. The result - they got blown out. At the time, people looked at it with some questioning if the Bulls could be considered as the greatest team of all time, when they let Seattle come back like that.

Most experts didn't really give Seattle a chance to win 4 straight, including the last two in Chicago. But you have to give credit where credit is due. The Sonics were an excellent team. In most years, 64 wins easily gets you the league's best record. They were fighters and were never going to lay down and accept a sweep. Kemp played incredible in games 4 and 5, as did Payton. The Bulls and Jordan played relatively lackadaisical. TBH, it even carried over into game 6, although I do believe Jordan's poor shooting performance was partially explained by the fact that it was Father's Day and he was remembering his murdered father. In fact when they won, Jordan was more emotional than in any other championship and specifically referenced how emotional - and painful - it was to win the championship on that day.

The fact is honestly Jordan just missed a lot of routine shots that he usually made at a high clip. Payton played very physical and aggressive defense, particularly to deny Jordan the ball, and Seattle was doubling Jordan aggressively. But really he still got good looks but they simply weren't falling. Jordan even got a little revenge the following season when he scored over 40 against Payton, mostly on the same shots he missed in the Finals.

You can't look at only the first three games of the series for Jordan however, nor can you look at the last two for Lebron. Neither Lebron nor James played exceptionally well in 96 or 2013. The difference is that 96 was far and away the worst Finals for Jordan, whereas Lebron has had multiple subpar performances in the Finals. There's no question Jordan's the overall better Finals performer. You can go either way on who was "better" or "least bad" in 96 and 2013.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron 2013
25.3 10.9 7.0 .447fg%

Bird 1984
27.4 14.0 3.6 .484fg%

Bird 1986
24.0 9.7 9.5 .482fg%


I think you might have to argue that one.

In 84 the Celtics averaged 117.4ppg in winning the title. The 2013 Heat won avg 97.0 ppg. Thats over 21% inflation based on the increased pace of the game.

Inflate LeBrons stats by that same pace (and lets face it, with more open court opportunities LeBron would have been FAR better) would get you to:
30.4ppg
13.2reb
8.5asst

Its always funny when people attempt to compare the current game to the 80s game without making the necessary pace adjustments.