If Lebron continues to play at this level

[alleykat]

if he continues at this level for the next years then yes you can make a case for him.....but that's IF......

idk how anyone can truly not see his potential, even if they are a lebron hater...

[BruceLeeBowen]

if he continues at this level for the next years then yes you can make a case for him.....but that's IF......

idk how anyone can truly not see his potential, even if they are a lebron hater...

Yeah 'm a huge huge fan of "PRIME" kobe but if Lebron continues to play at this level and wins a couple more 'ships as the lead dog he'll easily surpass kobe, shaq, duncan even bird. Hes only 27 ffs.

[Hands of Iron]

Only 27, but with nine seasons in the league already and still heavily dependent on his athleticism.

[Pointguard]

Only 27, but with nine seasons in the league already and still heavily dependent on his athleticism.

Lebron is one of the two best passing SF's ever. He can play more positions offensively than any SF which is the most versatile position to begin with. He also has one of the best handles for a guy his size. Among the high scorers he has the best judgement of when to pass or shoot perhaps ever in the game. He also has a great mix of inside shots, outside shots and hits them all at good percentages which is one of the best skills you can have in basketball. He's also one of the best rebounders at his position. He can play more positions than anybody in the game because his other fundamentals are great. His court awareness is among the best in the current game. Point Forward is the most skilled position in the NBA.

He's much more than his athleticism.

[Hands of Iron]

Lebron is one of the two best passing SF's ever. He can play more positions offensively than any SF which is the most versatile position to begin with. He also has one of the best handles for a guy his size. Among the high scorers he has the best judgement of when to pass or shoot perhaps ever in the game. He also has a great mix of inside shots, outside shots and hits them all at good percentages which is one of the best skills you can have in basketball. He's also one of the best rebounders at his position. He can play more positions than anybody in the game because his other fundamentals are great. His court awareness is among the best in the current game. Point Forward is the most skilled position in the NBA.

He's much more than his athleticism.

I'm talking about playing at the current GOAT level he's at and has been since circa '09, not being effective or even amongst the best in the league. Will be interesting to see how hungry he stays after getting over the hump and shutting up a lot of his critics.

[Sarcastic]

This level until he is 31? As in get MVP, FMVP, Championship until he is 31... which is 4 years from now? Which means 4 more MVPs, 4 more FMVPs, 4 more Championships?

Which means his career will look something like:

7 x MVP
5 x FMVP
5 x Championships
12 x NBA All-Star
10 x 1st All-NBA
8 x 1st All-Defensive
ROTY
and so on...

That is enough not only to pass freakin Bird, but Michael Jordan and become GOAT....

No it's not.

[Pointguard]

I'm talking about playing at the current GOAT level he's at and has been since circa '09, not being effective or even amongst the best in the league. Will be interesting to see how hungry he stays after getting over the hump and shutting up a lot of his critics.

True

[Hands of Iron]

True

Make no mistake about it, I'm not rooting against the guy simply because Bird is my dude. That's childish. Larry Bird won't cease being an All-Time Great because of what anybody else does. It took long enough for somebody to come along and match a lot of his unique qualities and all-around elite game and it took an athlete of Lebron's caliber. So if he puts up 35/9/7 on 50+% in the next couple post-seasons and leads the Heat to more titles I'll enjoy watching it.

[Hands of Iron]

It's definitely not going to be easy to maintain and it never is, even if you're 110% all in. The Thunder have their core and continually gain experience, the Lakers have made moves that could eat up and prevent Lebron from capitalizing on what he's started, preventing him from additional titles and accolades while at his peak a lot in the same way Magic and the 80s Lakers did to Bird. Not to mentiom having the early 80s 76ers and late 80s Pistons to deal with.

[Pointguard]

That's ironic because that describes Bird. Even though he is probably the greatest shooter of all time, he didn't set out to score the most or lead the league in ppgs. He was a past-first player and set out for the high percentage play as much as possible. In the same vein, Bird could be the best rebounder, passer or scorer on the team whenever the occasion arose - and 2/3 to a far higher level than Lebron. In this respect they're the same; that you can't just say "x is a scorer".

I do agree Bird was a whatever you need player moreso than a scorer as well. My bad on that.

Lebron play's point forward so his set up situation is perhaps more inherent in his game. Lebron has lead his team in more categories as much as any player since the 70's and this is before his prime. And lately he's been the best defender around as well. Bird was great in being able to lead his team in these categories but to suggest that he's had more years as the guy on his team to lead his team in a lot of categories he's not on Lebron level in that way.

Bird's major advantage over Lebron is that he's a shooter/scorer and rebounder. Bird rarely was as prolific as Lebron scoring and passing wise (playoffs or regular season already) so a lot of weight has to be put on Bird being a scorer/shooter and rebounder if the comparison evens out. So there is more weight on Bird to be a scorer then it is for Lebron is what I'm saying.

[LeBird]

IIRC, only Pippen and Bird (Bird more times than Pippen) have led his team in several factors. Lebron is also versatile like that.

As I said to another poster: you're looking at it the wrong way. Lebron, both in Cleveland and in Miami, carries the ball a hell of a lot. He basically plays point guard for many plays. That gives him a big advantage in terms of accumulating assists (aggregate or average) so sheer numbers doesn't tell the story. Bird played SF, but a lot of the time was more a PF. He didn't carry the ball like Lebron, or as often as Lebron, and the fact that their assist average is so similar is a testament to his vision - he is essentially getting the same number of assists although carrying the ball far less. Another thing that doesn't get counted is that Bird often made the decisive pass that led to an easy assist for someone else. He wouldn't get the assist in his stats, but his vision created the basket.

That's as far as numbers go; as far as actual skills go: Lebron does not touch Bird in terms of vision. Just watch old videos of Bird and look at Lebron. Bird's basketball IQ is in a different world to Lebron. Look at the kinds of assists he gives, and how he gives them. What you're doing simply looking at numbers and coming up with a conclusion. It's like saying Jordan was as good of a passer as Bird - just because their assist tallies are similar. But for the same reasons as the above, Jordan isn't near Bird (nor Magic) when it comes to passing the ball.

Don't get me wrong, my username is LeBird for a reason. I think ability-wise Lebron is in the top tier of players ever. I think he is a fantastic combination of skills and physical prowess. But when it comes to fundamentals he doesn't touch Bird, and passing is one of the few things that have little to do with how athletic you are.

Here is a fantastic video giving you a glimpse of the brilliance of his passing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhnRtgBGMl4

They say the league is more physical now, but in terms of technical brilliance you just don't see stuff like the above anymore (or at least consistently from players).

[crisoner]

lebron was also a better choker, as we all witnessed in the 2011 finals



the king

[Indian guy]

He basically plays point guard for many plays. That gives him a big advantage in terms of accumulating assists (aggregate or average) so sheer numbers doesn't tell the story.

I've never really understood this argument. LeBron is ball dominant(or was, he's certainly NOT ball-dominant as a Heat) because he CAN be. He has the athleticism and dribbling ability for it. Bird did not. You wouldn't want him dribbling behind the 3pt line, trying to create possession-after-possession. He had to perfect his off-ball, triple-threat and post game to overcome his limited athleticism. Dribbling the ball more would have HURT his production, not help.

Not that I consider LeBron a superior passer to Bird, but his success in posting high assist numbers on Team USA over the years is enough testament to his passing prowess. He doesn't need to dominate the ball to be a high APG guy. He has also averaged 6.6 apg the last 2 seasons while sharing the ball with Wade. That's plenty impressive.

As far as the thread's concerned, I don't think Bird ever impacted the game at the level '09 and '10 LeBron did. LeBron's an equivalent offensive player while being significantly better defensively. He also has better numbers in both forms of the game. Does anyone think Bird could lead those Cavalier teams to back-to-back 60+ wins? I sure as heck can't, but I can certainly see LeBron matching Bird's success in Boston.

[bizil]

When it comes to Bird and Bron, they are actually very similar and yet very different. If u look at the stat sheet,their numbers are damn similar. Bird's boards are a bit higher because he played PF more often than Bron. I think in terms of passing vision, Bird and Bron are a tie. But Bron has point guard type handle and pace which gives him a unique twist over Bird. But from a stationery positon or one to two dribble scenario, Bird is as good of a passer as anybody EVER! It takes guys with PG type handle and pace like a Bron, Magic, Stockton, etc. to have a slight edge on Bird.

[bizil]

Peak value wise is a tossup between these two. But for me, I will narrowly lean to Bron because of the defensive versatility aspect. But that wasn't always the case and I would have went with Bird peak value wise 2 or 3 years ago. And to be frank, Bron has a great chance to pass LB on the GOAT SF list sooner than later. It won't take five years most likely. Im thinking as soon as a couple of years. Gotta realize Bron is entering his tenth year in the L while Bird played 13 seasons. It's EASILY fair game to compare a 10th year player to a 13 year career. Especially when it's a young stud as decorated as Bron.