Kevin Durant: "Allen Iverson is pound for pound the greatest player ever"

[Reggie43]

really! I did a quick overview calculation - We're talking tiny minutia which has no impact on the bigger argument so I won't dig deeper. So does this make you a liar for your '03 statement??? I take it that you overlooked something and you did. No Big deal.

If you just bothered to read carefully, I never lied in any of my statements while you have lied numerous times just to prove a point.

Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain."
"He was never first in FTA per game"
"In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game"

You are arguing with me that the only guy in the league that could throw MJ (probably the most balanced, coordinated, athletic, fundamentally sound backcourt players ever) off balance twice in two seconds could somehow take 28 shots per game and not get more than 10 FTA per game? This is with Shaq, giving AI major cudos for taking it year after year in a humble way. And you are still arguing that he was called approapiately.

How did taking more shots automatically equate to more freethrows? Iverson
was taking mostly jumpers at that time so taking 27.8 fga to get 9.8 fta's is not that big a travesty you make it out to be. For comparison, Kobe got 10.2 fta's for his 27.2 attempts which is not far off while the greatest slasher of all time (Jordan) just got two more fta's than Iverson shooting the same number of shots. Sad part is that you nitpicked a single season for Iverson and if we based on career averages he was actually getting 8.9 fta's to his 21.8 fga's which was more than Kobe's 7.6 in 19.6 and Jordan's 8.2 in 22.9 fga's.

After I showed you a quote from a another ref talking about how Iverson saw the hardwood without compensation you continued on your path, You didn't even know the commisioner's disdain for Iverson. Heck, you didn't even know the reasons. You could just say my bad, or we can continue.

The ref you quoted was a known liar and a convicted criminal so why would I take that seriously? Heck even if we go by this statement "Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees." This means he got favorable calls from referees who liked him.

You didn't even know the commisioner's disdain for Iverson.

Here's a few articles about the commissioner' "disdain" for Iverson
http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/playof...1/1208098.html
http://articles.philly.com/2001-05-0...cial-treatment
http://articles.mcall.com/2001-05-31...-big-dog-bucks

An excerpt from one of the articles

The NBA assigns its veteran referees to work playoff games based upon merit. Different teams have complained throughout the years that superstars receive preferential treatment from the officials, and the Bucks are merely the latest upstarts to learn that playoff games at the end of May are often called differently than regular-season games.
Complaining about specific calls is one thing; alleging a conspiracy is another. And though nobody on the Bucks came right out and said it, all the questions about a conspiracy theory found a welcoming audience.
Allen said members of his family had told him that they were sitting across from NBA commissioner David Stern on Sunday and noticed him stand up to watch a replay after it appeared Allen got away with committing a foul against Iverson that wasn't called. "He jumped up real mad like he was cheering for Philly," Allen said.

Heck, you didn't even know the reasons. You could just say my bad, or we can continue.

Judging by your "lies" I'm pretty sure I know more about Iverson than you do so why bother to continue?

[houston]

allen iverson good grief

[Pointguard]

If you just bothered to read carefully, I never lied in any of my statements while you have lied numerous times just to prove a point.

Iverson took a pounding "And AI didn't complain."

Everybody complains, its slang. You are a bit too high strung. Its a comparative statement to others. AI got beat like no other player ever. Shaq who was being mucgged said this frequently.

"He was never first in FTA per game"

I explained this. On the basketballreference page they did not bold his FTA per game that year like they do when a player is first in that category. Go look it up. I was shocked that AI missed so many games that year. Very rarely would he have missed more games than Piece, Shaq and Wade, all of whom a number close to his total FTA. I did jump the gun there.

"In '05 Shaq was ahead of him in FTA per game"

We already talked about this. Apparently you come from a family that freaks out on each other when something is 1/10th off and is all down to lose their mind on smaller things to avoid the bigger point. AI was hammered routinely, he was leveled hard. Why are you a Reggie Miller fan, I would guess that you seen him play, and are acting incredibly childish over calculations that are very tiny and very little relevance to the conversation overall.

[Pointguard]

How did taking more shots automatically equate to more freethrows? Iverson
was taking mostly jumpers at that time so taking 27.8 fga to get 9.8 fta's is not that big a travesty you make it out to be. For comparison, Kobe got 10.2 fta's for his 27.2 attempts which is not far off while the greatest slasher of all time (Jordan) just got two more fta's than Iverson shooting the same number of shots. Sad part is that you nitpicked a single season for Iverson and if we based on career averages he was actually getting 8.9 fta's to his 21.8 fga's which was more than Kobe's 7.6 in 19.6 and Jordan's 8.2 in 22.9 fga's.

I am saying AI didn't get calls, Jordan and Kobe got fouled a lot as well. Biggest difference was in the 4th quarter they got the fouls called correctly. But there are other reasons.

*Jordan and Kobe posted a lot,
*were stationed closer to the basket in general,
*were often attacking from the side blocks as opposed from the top of the key where help comes over much more quicker and sloppier
*they created less off of the dribble, or with less dribbles than AI.
*AI zig zagged more than they did which allowed more defenders reaching
*AI was smaller and was affected by contact more,
*AI got players off balance as a main part of his attack,
*they had less help and was subject to more crowding.
*AI shot was released lower to the ground and other players went after it harder.
*they had more versatile games than AI. AI just attacked with his quickness.
*AI basic game was to attack from the elbows. Teams knew his starting point and where he wanted to go and tried to put bodies in his way.
*Speed, predictability, help defense, being smaller, sending a message to a driver culture, all were reasons why AI game was super conducive to drawing fouls. But they weren't called.

The ref you quoted was a known liar and a convicted criminal so why would I take that seriously? Heck even if we go by this statement "Allen Iverson provides a good example of a player who generated strong reaction, both positive and negative, within the corps of NBA referees." This means he got favorable calls from referees who liked him.

Because your eyes confirmed it. I'm sure there were refs that liked him.

There is always one or two that are different. I hope you do know that the Commissioner talks to refs to see how they are going to call the games frequently. The refs are an extension of the commissioner.

Here's a few articles about the commissioner' "disdain" for Iverson
http://assets.espn.go.com/nba/playof...1/1208098.html
http://articles.philly.com/2001-05-0...cial-treatment
http://articles.mcall.com/2001-05-31...-big-dog-bucks

An excerpt from one of the articles

The NBA assigns its veteran referees to work playoff games based upon merit. Different teams have complained throughout the years that superstars receive preferential treatment from the officials, and the Bucks are merely the latest upstarts to learn that playoff games at the end of May are often called differently than regular-season games.
Complaining about specific calls is one thing; alleging a conspiracy is another. And though nobody on the Bucks came right out and said it, all the questions about a conspiracy theory found a welcoming audience.
Allen said members of his family had told him that they were sitting across from NBA commissioner David Stern on Sunday and noticed him stand up to watch a replay after it appeared Allen got away with committing a foul against Iverson that wasn't called. "He jumped up real mad like he was cheering for Philly," Allen said.

really?
There was only one guy in the whole league that could tell the many bad teams without an exciting player to not take Iverson. You aren't the sharpest knife in the draw. But you should be able to catch that one.

[Reggie43]

Was away from the site for a while but our resident "Pointguard" homer never fails to amuse with his replies

[PHILA]

4th quarter

One area Iverson excelled in was "clutch" scoring in the playoffs, albeit a smaller sample size. Compared to the regular season in the specified years below, he has a very slight increase in FGA/48. However, both his scoring volume and efficiency skyrocket due his FG% and FTA rate. His best playoff year in clutch scoring performance was 2003, averaging 50.7 Pts/48 on 64.6% TS. One example is this closeout game against the Hornets. For all the Iverson criticisms, there is no doubt he was a very reliable offensive weapon down the stretch of a close playoff game.

*All statistics from NBA.com


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points


Allen Iverson

2000-2005 (Playoffs Only) - 31 Games

Per 48 Minutes

43.3 Points
3.0 Steals
5.7 Rebounds
5.7 Assists
3.3 Turnovers
46.0% FG
59.9% TS



For comparison, below we can see Kobe and LeBron's playoff clutch statistics, under the same stipulation from 82games.com.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=322375



Kobe Bryant

2006-2009 (Playoffs Only) - 32 Games

Per 48 Minutes

47.6 Points
1.5 Steals
6.0 Rebounds
5.2 Assists
1.9 Turnovers
45.2% FG
58.7% TS



LeBron James

2009-2013 (Playoffs Only) - 32 Games

*Not including 2011 Playoffs

Per 48 Minutes

46.2 Points
2.1 Steals
13.5 Rebounds
7.8 Assists
6.0 Turnovers
46.2% FG
62.8% TS