Stockton and Malone - The Original Trash Bro's

[AirFederer]

The lebrons of the 90ies

[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]Playoff Blunders

1986 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs
1987 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1988 - choked semi's vs Lakers (5 seed)
1989 - choked 1st rnd vs Warriors (as favorites)
1990 - choked 1st rnd vs Suns (as favorites)
1991 - choked semi's vs Trailblazers (5 seed)
1992 - choked WCF vs Trailblazers
1993 - choked 1st rnd vs Sonics
1994 - choked WCF vs Rockets
1995 - choked 1st rnd vs Rockets (as favorites)
1996 - choked WCF vs Sonics
1997 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1998 - choked Finals vs Bulls
1999 - choked semi's vs Blazers
2000 - choked semi's vs Blazers (as favorites)
2001 - choked 1st rnd vs Mavs (as favorites)
2002 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings
2003 - choked 1st rnd vs Kings (5 seed)



18 Playoffs together

9 First round exits

4 Semi Conf exits

3 Conf final exits

2 Finals exits



[I]The Original Trash Bros

[LostCause]

Utah wasn

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Utah wasn

[Phoenix]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Utah wasn

[Haymaker]

Stockton > Malone

[Showtime80']

LOL, the Utah Jazz of the late 90's showed EXACTLY how watered down the NBA had become with the guys that came into the league in the mid 90's an onward that ironically went on to DOMINATE the even more watered down 00's and present 10's!!!.

Utah finished with the BEST RECORD in the NBA in 1998 playing in a Western Conference that included:

Lakers (Shaq, Kobe)- 61 wins- Swept 4-0 in WCF
Spurs (Duncan)- 56 wins- Beat 4-1 in WCSF
Suns- (Kidd, Nash)- 56 wins
Wolves- (Garnett)- 45 wins
Blazers- (Wallace) 46 wins

Haha!!! Those 7 players above won 13 titles between 1999- 2014 (Kicking LeBald's as! in the process) and yet couldn't handle a Utah Jazz team lead by 35 y/o Malone, Stockton and Hornacek!!! LOL!!!!!! Here are nice little videos of these guys RAPING one of the most athletic teams of all time in the 1998 Lakers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so5JjKpxJjc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pW7oYxfBhY&t=2s

Players started getting dumber and less fundamentally sound in the mid 90's and the Jazz with their solid system, basketball IQ and physicality took full advantage. Hell the Jazz were still winning 50+ games up to 2001 in the STRONGER CONFERENCE!

Can you imagine Stockton/Malone, even in their older versions playing against todays dumbed down, one dimensional, fundamentally flawed soft primadonnas like Westrbrick, Harden, Durant, Curry and LeBald?!?! They would SLAUGHTER THEM!

[tpols]

^^^

Did this dude really just say curry is dumbed down?

Golden state averages more assists, hockey assists, and total passes than the late 90s jazz.

Golden state makes them look dumb... just spamming PnRs.



That was almost as ignorant as 3balls "standstill" comment, when the dubs have more player movement than perhaps any team ever.

[tpols]

Also why would you be shocked 35 year old grown men Stockton and Malone could beat a bunch of young 20s guys?

That has been happening throughout all of basketball history. An old Dirk and ancient Jason Kidd beat Durant Westbrook wade LeBron and bosh all in their primes... Vet teams tend to win over younger ones.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

The only think Stockton did wrong was defer to Malone too much. He was often more effective scoring in the clutch but kept letting Malone **** it up.

Yup and Jerry Sloans control freak system

Karl never had a reliable half court scoring game. If that 16 ft fadeaway wasn't falling he'd have a bunch of those 6/19 games because he had issues with a reliable shot and score when be couldn't get transition, pick and roll or easy shots inside

Stockton before Sloan was outplaying a peak Magic h2h before he ever became an all-star

https://www.basketball-reference.com...vs-lakers.html

[Showtime80']

Again apples and oranges tpols, the Jazz averaged 25 assists in 1998 playing at an 89 pace while the present day Warriors play at a 101 pace!

Maybe calling the Warriors dumbed down is a bit of a stretch, but being the smartest in the truly dumbed down modern NBA is not saying much specially when EVERY RULE that has been altered in the past 20+ years has been put in to enhanced the limited abilities of guys like Curry and Klay. It also helps that EVERY team in the NBA is trying to play like them which has NEVER been seen in NBA history.

Is not about being shocked that the Jazz beat the Lakers in 1998, it is about keeping things in perspective when people try to minimize those Jazz teams. They would've been one of the top teams in ANY DEDADE and would've been a headache to deal with. It took amazing performances from the greatest player, coach and team of all time to stop them from winning. Shaq, Kobe, Tim Duncan and Dirk DON'T own the West as they did with Stockton/Malone in their primes during the 00's/10's. Here's a another video of them at 37/38 y/o going toe to toe with Dirk/Nash in 2001:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhET0Z37Wd8

You would think that the young "uber athletic" late 90's Lakers with four ALL-STARS would make a dent in the OLD, slow, predominantly WHITE Jazz team but NOOOOOOO, they got TROUNCED 8-1 between 1997 and 98 and it wasn't even that close!

The NBA sold their collective SOULS at the altar of athleticism and individual offensive stars during the mid to late 90's and in the process sacrificed the fundamentals, intelligence, grit, execution and precision that made teams like the Jazz of the 80's to 2000's a thing of beauty!

[NBAGOAT]

why do people bring up the 98 version, stockton was practically a super role player by then and didnt make the all star game even but competed with the Bulls because they were at the end of their rope too. The 97 version is the one worth talking about.

64-18 during the rs and gave a 69 win Bulls team that wasnt too much worse than their goat version a year ago a legitimate series. 93 Suns and 96 Sonics have strong arguments and I tend to like them too.

On the other hand I have reservations about the 93 Suns defense and am not so sure the first 3 peat Bulls are better than the first two years of the 2nd 3peat(for one why do most agree the 96 Bulls are clearly their goat version) even with the expansion stuff. It only helps the suns anyway. With the 96 Sonics, I could point to a worse Jazz team taking them to 7 even though it's one series. Also, multiple people have pointed out Malone's flaws as a halfcourt scorer but who the hell do the Sonics have as a half court scorer, always one of their main flaws in the playoffs

[Showtime80']

I'm sorry again tpols but people forget that the 98 Lakers had just come off beating the VETERAN 61 win Sonics putting up DEVASTATING offensive numbers in their 5 game series win and had EVERYBODY picking them past the Jazz and meeting the Bulls in the Finals (the Jordan-Kobe narrative would've been VOMIT INDUCING to say the least, thanks again Jazz).

1998 West Semis Lakers numbers:

84 pace
105ppg
57% eFG
44% 3's (41/93)
52% FG

Shift to the WCF against the Jazz and their numbers were:

90 pace (more to the Lakers liking)
91.ppg
43% eFG
26% 3's
40% FG

That is an absolute DEFENSIVE CLINIC against a team that was younger, more athletic and DEEPER coming off a blowout win in the prior round.

The NBA didn't like smart, physical, defensive oriented teams to impose their will on the new up an coming "all braun NO BRAINS" softer crop of supposed stars because it hurt their bottom line so they went to work on re-writing the rules to ensure that would NEVER happen today. Say hello to the manufactured Harden, Curry, Dumbrook, Gianis and LeBald era!

[TheMan]

Another retarded LeBron fanboy thread trying to undermine MJ only to prop up LeBron.

[COLOR="Black"]F[/COLOR]ucking christ, the rage in these incels.

Just ignore them and read the Bronsexual circlejerk just for shits and giggles because either they're trolling or they really are that stupid so you'd be wasting your time in either case.

Hold this L ISH basketball forum, easily the worst forum for knowledgeable hoops discussion

[Phoenix]

On the other hand I have reservations about the 93 Suns defense and am not so sure the first 3 peat Bulls are better than the first two years of the 2nd 3peat(for one why do most agree the 96 Bulls are clearly their goat version) even with the expansion stuff.

I would tend to go with the idea that Jordan and Pippen were younger, healthier and more athletic versions of their 2nd 3peat selves. I suppose the case could be made for 2nd 3peat MJ/Pippen being more experienced and savvy but.....you're talking prime/peak MJ for the first 3peat. Scottie was a better leader from 96-98, but was really bad offensively in the playoffs and was hobbled for much of the 98 season(missed 38 games and his back was shot for game 6 of the finals, hence MJ's 45 point bailout performance). In 91-93 he provided much better offensive help to MJ while still offering superior defense. I would take 96 Rodman over Grant, but by 98 Rodman was coming off the bench for most of the playoffs and his numbers were declining( check his finals numbers in 98 for example). Benches were more or less a wash, maybe a slight edge to 96-98 because of Kukoc but.... I just feel like 91-93 MJ/Pippen cover any deficits that version of the team has compared to 96-98.

Furthermore, after 95 the league was not only bloated out from expansion, but was transitioning with the 80's stars aging( Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Drexler etc) while the younger, up and coming stars were still figuring out how to win( Shaq, pre-injury Penny, Grant Hill, etc) with the 00's stars like Kobe, Garnett, Duncan coming in at the latter end of the decade. The first 3peat squad played in a league that featured a number of all-timers right in their primes( Barkley, Ewing, Admiral, Malone, Drexler) and before the talent pool was further diluted by the 2 Canadian teams joining in 95.

[tpols]

Again apples and oranges tpols, the Jazz averaged 25 assists in 1998 playing at an 89 pace while the present day Warriors play at a 101 pace!

Maybe calling the Warriors dumbed down is a bit of a stretch, but being the smartest in the truly dumbed down modern NBA is not saying much specially when EVERY RULE that has been altered in the past 20+ years has been put in to enhanced the limited abilities of guys like Curry and Klay. It also helps that EVERY team in the NBA is trying to play like them which has NEVER been seen in NBA history

showtime,

The '16 warriors averaged 29 dimes a game... the same amount as the '86 GOAT celtics... BUT at a slower pace than Boston.

So you're kind of blowing up your whole argument when you do things like call them dumb. Theyre one of the highest IQ, team ball playing squads to ever play the game.

The old man stuff... were always tougher than you stuff is old too... Karl Malone was the only physically robust star on those jazz teams, but everybody knows he was a coward at heart.

Ill never forget the dream team doc where johnny boy walks around italy and NOBODY knew he was on the dream team because he was so physically non imposing.. all 5'11 175 lbs of him. Meanwhile Curry is a legit 6'3 185 but the way you talk about him youd think he was a lighter skinned spud webb.

Jefff hornacek too... nothing imposing about him just a smart glue guy talented baller, but even a buffed out iggy playing in a similar role makes him look like a child.

The "YOU YOUNGINS ARE SO SOFT WED JUST PUNK YA" argument just doesnt fly old chap.

If that were the case the '04 pacers would be better than the warriors but were talking basketball.

I just wish i could see the dumbfounded look on your face if the two squads could face each other...

the avalanche would be BEAUtiful.