Kobe haters are mad because he's only SUPERSTAR royal to his Team.

[KG215]

But didn't get traded. I don't care about stuff that almost happened.

This is absurd given the topic of the thread. It's indisputable fact that Kobe wanted, asked for demanded a trade at one point. That's not being very loyal to your team.

[7_cody]

Discredit and context are two different things. And I said post MJ era...so Shaq's time pre Lakers doesn't count in what I said. Shaq came into the league in the MJ era.

Yes...if you count Shaq's entire career he also played with a ton of help. And that should matter when you put his career into context.

But the point...which I shouldn't have to spell out. Is that Kobe had no reason not to be loyal. The only 3 years of his career in which he didn't have one of, if not the best, supporting casts was after he and Shaq feuded and basically the Lakers were forced to part with one of them. Now, before you freak out...I'm not fully blaming Kobe. But he played a large role in that and obviously wanted to prove his worth on his own.

So think about that. The only span in his 17 year career in which he didn't have great help was in part caused by himself.

So...compare that to guys like Dirk, PP, KG, Wade, Duncan...etc. It's not even comparable. Dirk played with very good, but not great help...Kobe probably asks to be traded 3 plus times in Dirk's shoes.

So I don't want to hear about how loyal Kobe is when he played with the most help of the era and still caused problems on and off the court and publicly demanded to be traded. It's absurd.

What problems did he cause? He had leverage, and he used it like anyone else should have in a business world. At the time losing Shaq seemed catastrophic. But then we won back-to-back championships shortly after, so, it appears that Kobe didn't just talk the walk, but he walked the walk. Who knows if we win back-to-back chips by keeping Shaq. Why take that gamble, we already know that Kobe + Pau did it for us?

Besides Smush Parker, Kobe hasn't had many teammates complain about him. Coaches and players have complained about lack of touches, no doubt, so while he is a ballhog he isn't some horrible team cancer or something like you guys are trying to make him out to be.

[DMAVS41]

This is absurd given the topic of the thread. It's indisputable fact that Kobe wanted, asked for demanded a trade at one point. That's not being very loyal to your team.

Especially when in 14 of the 17 years of his career he's had good to ****ing great supporting casts...nearly all of them being championship caliber.

[7_cody]

This is absurd given the topic of the thread. It's indisputable fact that Kobe wanted, asked for demanded a trade at one point. That's not being very loyal to your team.

He had leverage and he used it, as he should have. Anyone that is not as dumb as the average ISH poster would have done the same thing.

Besides, we did win back-to-back championships shortly after. I think it worked out pretty well, don't you?

[DMAVS41]

What problems did he cause? He had leverage, and he used it like anyone else should have in a business world. At the time losing Shaq seemed catastrophic. But then we won back-to-back championships shortly after, so, it appears that Kobe didn't just talk the walk, but he walked the walk. Who knows if we win back-to-back chips by keeping Shaq. Why take that gamble, we already know that Kobe + Pau did it for us?

Besides Smush Parker, Kobe hasn't had many teammates complain about him. Coaches and players have complained about lack of touches, no doubt, so while he is a ballhog he isn't some horrible team cancer or something like you guys are trying to make him out to be.

You need to learn the history. Kobe was causing problems on the Lakers for a long time. Read Phil Jackson's book...LOL

There seems to be two arguments here. This isn't about denying the greatness of Kobe or his career.

It's about talking some sense into you morons insisting he's the most loyal player of this era. Which is ****ing absurd even without context. But factoring in having championship rosters literally 75% of your career or more...just makes it even more of a joke.

[KG215]

He had leverage and he used it, as he should have. Anyone that is not as dumb as the average ISH poster would have done the same thing.

Besides, we did win back-to-back championships shortly after. I think it worked out pretty well, don't you?

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with loyalty? At what point in their careers did KG, Duncan, Dirk, and Pierce make a scene and demand to be traded?

Are the Kobe fanboys completely missing the point of the entire thread? We're talking about the most loyal superstar of this era. What he did may have worked out, it still doesn't excuse him.

[7_cody]

You need to learn the history. Kobe was causing problems on the Lakers for a long time. Read Phil Jackson's book...LOL

There seems to be two arguments here. This isn't about denying the greatness of Kobe or his career.

It's about talking some sense into you morons insisting he's the most loyal player of this era. Which is ****ing absurd even without context. But factoring in having championship rosters literally 75% of your career or more...just makes it even more of a joke.

Oh I already mentioned earlier that I don't give a crap about "loyalty" in a business sense. So I guess I did get off topic a bit in my last post. I guess he isn't loyal, and I don't really care about that.

Phil wrote his book to sell. Do you think he was telling the whole story? He could have written a similar book about any other legendary superstar player.

edit: Hell, he probably could have written a worse book about Michael Jordan, but I don't know that's just my speculation

[7_cody]

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with loyalty? At what point in their careers did KG, Dirk, and Pierce make a scene and demand to be traded?

Are the Kobe fanboys completely missing the point of the entire thread? We're talking about the most loyal superstar of this era. What he did may have worked out, it still doesn't excuse him.

You're right, I dismissed the loyalty thing earlier as I personally don't care about that and got off topic. My bad.

Kobe isn't the cancer teammate that some are making him out to be. That is all.

[Bigsmoke]

A fact that due to Kobe's demands, he helped the Lakers hang 2 more championship banners

That's why Kobe and Timmy stayed on their teams.... They franchises were able to support their star players unlike those other guys. KG should get knocked for forcing his way out of a team with nothing but garbage?

[dannysc305]

Yeah were so mad bro. Were totally losing sleep over this.

[Nevaeh]

He had leverage and he used it, as he should have. Anyone that is not as dumb as the average ISH poster would have done the same thing.

Besides, we did win back-to-back championships shortly after. I think it worked out pretty well, don't you?

Well, this begs the question, what exactly is "loyalty" in sports anyway? Is it staying with an organization that exploits the hell out of you, and doesn't give you help? Is it voicing your concerns for what can make the team better, only to not have your voice heard? Is it being content with just collecting a paycheck, and not caring how far your team goes in the Playoffs? Where exactly is the line drawn?

It's just kinda funny to me that players are expected to be loyal to a fault, while the team that they work for can make blatantly un-loyal moves, and it's simply looked at as a "business decision". Top Players compete to win Championships and always have. If the team that they work for are not, or can not make moves to make that happen, a player has a right to do something about it, just like Kobe did, just like Magic did, just like Duncan did, just like Jordan did, just like Shaq did, etc.

Loyalty is a two way street, and always has been. That's why I don't get caught up in arguments about some bullsh!t pseudo "loyalty" that only goes as far as a team is willing to work to improve their team's chances of winning. But I had to correct the OP on a coupleof points that he made that were just plain wrong.

[DMAVS41]

You're right, I dismissed the loyalty thing earlier as I personally don't care about that and got off topic. My bad.

Kobe isn't the cancer teammate that some are making him out to be. That is all.

Well, compared to some guys like Duncan and Dirk...who cause virtually no problems on or off the court...I'd say Kobe has been a pretty cancerous teammate compared to them.

So basically you have just ignored the point of the entire thread? Got it.

[ciaguy23]

That's fine and great for Kobe.....hell I'd stick around too if I was making 30 million a year (half of the teams salary before the cap). Too bad it's the same reason why the lakers have sucked dick the last two years, Howard's leaving, and Phil Jackson retired and another coach was fired because that dudes contract cash strapped that team and no depth moves could ever be made and maybe if he realized he's not 29 anymore the lakers could be better set up for the future.