Where do people rank Gordon Hayward amongst current small forwards?

[masonanddixon]

You claim to be a doctor, yet you don't even know how to structure your sentences.

What do you mean? That sentence is perfectly grammatically correct. Or are you referring to needing a comma before 'man' in that post?

[RRR3]

Regardless, Wiggins is definitely not better than Hayward.

[CakeorDeath]

Doesn't necessarily mean he is a better player, but I would take Hayward on my team over Melo ten times out of ten.

[Legends66NBA7]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.

[RRR3]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.

nice avatar dude

[Legends66NBA7]

nice avatar dude

So much potential for a great character.

[CakeorDeath]

Kawhi Leonard
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James

Are locked into that Top 5 (no order when I put thise names up FYI).

SF is a top heavy postion in this league. Those are 5 good/elite players then the rest of them are jocking for position.

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

[plowking]

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

[Legends66NBA7]

Why is Melo elite and Hayward is in the pack that is a tier below? Statistically, they are shockingly similar this season, and Hayward is 6 years younger.

I wouldn't say he's elite anymore. More "good".

He still draws more attention from opposing defenses than Hayward does and to his credit his defense has been very good too. He's also the ehst player on his team while Hayward has the better team around him and isn't best player on his.

Kinda an apples and oranges debate.

[Legends66NBA7]

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

11-12 and 12-13.

Records weren't very great. Barely made the playoffs in 12 and missed it in 13 at the end of the year, but would have made it in the East. However, he wasn't the main reason for them having that success.

[Mike smith]

Top small forwards in nba

1: durant
2:Lebron
3:Leonard
4: melo
5:George
6: Hayward
7:Wiggins
8: galo

[CakeorDeath]

In what way is 22/8/4 similar to 19/5/3?

When you look at the actual numbers, and you look at more than just ppg/rpg/apg

The actual numbers are:

Melo: 21.6/7.7/3.7 with 0.9 spg, 0.6 bpg and 2.5 topg. 17.8 FGA shooting .428, with .333 from 3 pt line and .832 ft% on 5.8 ft attempts per game

Hayward: 18.7/5.1/3.2 with 1.2 spg, 0.2 bpg and 2.5 topg. 14.2 FGA shooting .424 with .390 from 3 pt line and .827 ft% on 5.8 ft attempt per game.

Thus, they are a wash on defensive statistics, turnovers, FG%, FT%, and ft attempts. Yes, Melo score 3 points per game more, but attempts 3.5 more FGs a game to get it. If they shoot the same percentage, the same ft percentage, and the same number of free throws, one player scoring more than the other boils down pretty simply to FGA. Melo shoots a bit more, and therefore scores a bit more.

So basically, your argument is that 2.5 extra rebounds and 0.5 extra assists makes Melo an elite small forward and Hayward a tier below? You're either giving Melo too much superstar treatment, or Hayward not enough.

Not to mention Melo's team was expected to be garbage once again, but they are fighting for the playoffs in a tougher conference, and have a better record than Utah.

Preseason expectations mean dick. Knicks are at 18-20 and the Jazz are at 16-20. They have a better win percentage because they have played two more games. Jazz's next two games are against the Lakers and Portland, so chances are good that they match the Knicks' 18-20 mark.

Tougher conference? Scheduling differences makes that very difficult to quantify, but what is indisputable is that the top 6 teams in the league record-wise are GS, SA, OKC, LAC, CLE, and CHI. Jazz have played those teams 9 times so far. Knicks have played them 8 times (3 of those 8 have been against CLE). Jazz have yet to play Chicago; Knicks haven't played GS or LAC. As previously stated, the teams have basically the same record. So I don't really buy your argument here.

Plus, Jazz have had horrible luck with injuries. Exum out for the whole year. Gobert out for a month. Favors 3 weeks and counting. Burks out at least a month. Hood now out.

EDIT: I'm not even entirely sure of the answer, but has Hayward ever actually been on a winning team?

Jazz 11-12 team ended at 36-30 and lost in the first round. 12-13 Jazz team went 43-39.

[CakeorDeath]

I wouldn't say he's elite anymore. More "good".

He still draws more attention from opposing defenses than Hayward does and to his credit his defense has been very good too. He's also the ehst player on his team while Hayward has the better team around him and isn't best player on his.

Kinda an apples and oranges debate.

Melo has never been elite. Elite players don't go 2-8 on getting out of the first round. Elite players don't have the worst playoff record in NBA history (minimum 50 games).

Empty stats on many teams that should have performed better. His "leadership" and "defense" are big reasons why they didn't.

When has a Melo team ever overachieved?

[WayOfWade]

Dang, CakeOrDeath throwing logic out there, something many of these posters aren't used to.
However I would say that a couple past versions of Melo can be considered elite, mainly his 12'-13' campaign, however he as underachieved almost all his career, only really meeting expectations in 09', which resulted in a loss to the eventual champ Lakers.
It's hard to argue Hayward over Melo (unless your CakeOrDeath), but I bet most people by seasons end will be agreeing rather than disagreeing.

[Legends66NBA7]

Melo has never been elite. Elite players don't go 2-8 on getting out of the first round. Elite players don't have the worst playoff record in NBA history (minimum 50 games).

Empty stats on many teams that should have performed better. His "leadership" and "defense" are big reasons why they didn't.

When has a Melo team ever overachieved?

Melo's teams were usually not that talented. The one time he did get great support was the 09 Nuggets.

13 Knicks were an overachiever.

And if Melo was never elite, Hayward never will be. And why would someone who's got a worse track record be taken 10 times out of 10 ?