Do people often say MJ is the GOAT just to avoid being ostracized?

[G.O.A.T]

"Greatest winner" really isn't the metric for best player in any of the other team sports anyway.

Jim Brown or Jerry Rice are generally considered the NFL GOATs, not Joe Montana who has more Superbowl rings. Jim Brown only has 1 Superbowl ring.

Wayne Gretzky is NHL GOAT, but he's not even close to the greatest winner in NHL history. He has 4 Cups to Maurice Richard's 11.

Joe DiMaggio and Yogi Barra have more World Series rings than Babe Ruth, but most people put Ruth at no.1 or no.2 because of individual dominance on top of a good number of WS wins.

And all of these guys are star players too, these aren't the "Robert Horry's" of their sport.

It's the intersection of individual dominance and team dominance that people want to see when determining who's the best. People look at these two in unison because they want to see who's the best player, not who played in the best situation.

Basketball is much different then the rest, it's a much more individual game though equal to those others a team game.

As examples

In Basketball a player has the opportunity to impact every single offensive and defensive possession. That does not happen in any of the other three sports.

In football, the quarterback is unquestionably the most important position and can impact at most 55% of the plays in a game.

In Baseball a hitter impacts only 10-15% of the plays in a game and as a fielder your percentage can be even lower. The player with the greatest impact on each game (the starting pitcher) plays only once every four or five games.

In Hockey, while on the Ice, it is similar to basketball, but even the very best players rarely play much more than a third of the game.

Because of the greater emphasis on individual excellence, you see fewer upsets in basketball. In the NFL, NHL and MLB the lowest playoff seed has won the title at least once in the last decade, that has never happened in basketball and seems almost impossible.

Aside from Mikan, who gets excluded for era. Most everyone has the same top 12 or at least 10-12 of these guys in their top 12: Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, Mikan. Those are the 12 guys who won an MVP, Finals MVP and two titles as their teams best player. So those things matter in basketball, at least when it comes to the very best.

I've often spoken of how those 12 players combined have played in nearly every NBA finals from '49 to today. Try to do that in baseball or hockey or football. Only two MVP's in NBA history has never played in the finals (Nash, Rose), only three never made it to the finals in their prime. (Add McAdoo) You won't see that in other sports either.

The correlation between individual excellence and team success is undeniably greater in basketball than in the other three majors. That's why it's different in basketball, because it's different in basketball.

Now of course it needs to be noted always that this does not suggest things should be simplified to more rings = better player, or even more rings as best player equals better player, just that it is a very important and legitimate criteria to consider when evaluating the best players.

[sportjames23]

F*ck Michael Jordan.

And your mama.

[sportjames23]

Would have got 0 rings without Pippen.

Remind me again how many rings Pippen won without MJ.

[Roundball_Rock]

Thanks for owning them once again. These MVP votes clearly show that Russell was the best player on those Celtics team.

I do what I can.

Remind me again how many rings Pippen won without MJ.

Yup, they won together and needed each other to reach the high level of achievement they did.

[Just2McFly]

man oh man

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why not give KAJ, Wilt, and Russell equal time? Where is the ESPN "Gretzky is the best ever" or "Rice is the GOAT" or "Babe Ruth" special edition issue?

Why as a "Bulls fan" with the cover of this magazine even bother you?

[GODbe]

It's pretty much exactly that. I think the general public deep down has already accepted Kobe surpassed him a couple years ago. They just continue to say that overrated scrub is GOAT so they don't get dirty looks from people like them.

[knicksman]

It is funny how rings are the be all end all for MJ stans. 6>5. 6>3. 6>2. 6>6 ( ). Except when it comes to Russell--who was 11 for 12 in rings (MJ was 5 for 15). Then all of a sudden context, how good the player was individually matters.

So how many russell type of players have won since russell esp in the modern era. NONe. I dont know why bran stans are so stupid. But I guess as they say, empty vessels make the most noise.

[knicksman]

Saying wilt is a candidate just shows your lack of IQ. LOL wilt. The best way to judge a player is how he performs when it matters. Only idiots think RS=playoffs=finals or 1st quarter scoring=clutch scoring. Same idiots who think Wilt=jordan because of regular season stats. LOL judge them during tough times and the overrateds(wilt, bran) get exposed.