better player in their prime/peak

[necya]

Lebron James vs Hakeem Olajuwon

Kobe Bryant vs Charles Barkley

Carmelo Anthony vs Chris Webber

Dwight Howard vs Grant Hill

Dirk Nowitzki vs Allen Iverson

Chris Bosh vs Reggie Miller

Tracy McGrady vs Patrick Ewing

Dwyane Wade vs Karl Malone

Vince Carter vs Alonzo Mourning

Amare Stoudemire vs Dominique Wilkins

Chris Paul vs David Robinson

Jason Kidd vs Scottie Pippen

Gilbert Arenas vs Michael Jordan

good comparisons?

no, because of their role

[Bring-Your-Js]

2009 and 2010 say ...

It's Over.

And people thought you were nuts. I was hesitant because of all the 4th qrt shots that were going in but physically, you called it 100% accurate.

[Samurai Swoosh]

It's Over.

And people thought you were nuts. I was hesitant because of all the 4th qrt shots that were going in but physically, you called it 100% accurate.

Thanks for the props, bro.

You know watching basketball for so long, I can tell. And it isn't in the obvious things like how high he jumps, etc.

It's in the mannerisms. The way they move when you can tell it's over for them. When they are still at their peak, there is like a thought bubble you can almost read above their head that shows the pure arrogance of being able to do WHATEVER they want to on the court.

People jumped my case, but I could see it. And the sad thing is ... him being on the down side of his career (especially physically) flipped like a light switch sometime around late November.

It's like a car. A car that you put so many miles on, then when it gets to some set number ... BAM ... it just starts to deteriorate.

I mean, you can see it even the video of him in pickup at the Drew League. The stiff movements in his legs. The entire lack of explosion. He CAN'T DO whatever he WANTS to do anymore on call. Thus he has passed his peak / prime.

I mean in that PICK UP game, he was asking for picks to get around players on non-NBA competition.



If that doesn't tell you right there, I don't know what would. I saw him need the pick and roll more this year than I have EVER seen from him.

Just go watch videos of him from 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. The fluidity and explosion in his movements. All of that is gone. And you can see it on him mentality.

I mean in the playoffs he couldn't beat Taj Gibson off the dribble, couldn't blow by OMAR ASIK off the dribble, looked visibly shook not being able to beat Jason Kidd off the dribble.

People keep repeating "he's 26" ... well, I guess he really isn't 26. He's had MAJOR minutes since entering the league.

He's 8 years into his pro career. He isn't some spring chicken.

If I was a LeBron fan, I'd be very worried. And I'm almost positive now it has NOTHING to do with some arbitrary slight weight gain. He's on the down side of career.

And if he doesn't come up with some more identifiable half court offensive skills, or moves to free himself up ... LeBron is not going to age very gracefully, people.

[Boston C's]

I'm wondering if the ppl picking arenas are trolling or are just that stupid...

[Warriors fan]

I'm wondering if the ppl picking arenas are trolling or are just that stupid...

[Smoke117]

Lebron James vs Hakeem Olajuwon

Kobe Bryant vs Charles Barkley

Carmelo Anthony vs Chris Webber

Dwight Howard vs Grant Hill

Dirk Nowitzki vs Allen Iverson

Chris Bosh vs Reggie Miller

Tracy McGrady vs Patrick Ewing

Dwyane Wade vs Karl Malone

Vince Carter vs Alonzo Mourning

Amare Stoudemire vs Dominique Wilkins

Chris Paul vs David Robinson

Jason Kidd vs Scottie Pippen

Gilbert Arenas vs Michael Jordan

This.

[ShaqAttack3234]

1.I'm taking Hakeem whether you're talking peak season('94 Hakeem vs '09 Lebron), best years('93-'95 Hakeem vs '09-'11 Lebron) or extended prime '86-'96 Hakeem vs '06-'11 Lebron). Hakeem wins in all comparisons, with single season peaks being the closest, the gap is wider for prime. Hakeem was the better player because he was one of the best scorers I've ever seen, made his teammates better(not only did he become a proficient and willing passer, but he'd regularly spin into the lane or draw a crowd with a fake which would result in a shooter on his team having a wide open 3 with nobody near him), but it's his defense that separates him. Hakeem was arguably the best defensive player of the last 30 years, he was one of the rare players who could completely control and carry a team at the end because he was not only a dominant shot blocker, but he was great at stepping out and he had excellent hands which allowed him to pick up steals on entry passes or strip the post(though he cut down on these type of plays). And to seal the deal, Hakeem was a much better playoff performer. Aside from 2009, and maybe 2006, Lebron has played well below his standards in every series that he's lost, while Hakeem usually went down playing great. Look at his '86 run when he beat the Showtime Lakers and gave the Celtics(arguably the best team ever) a good fight as a 2nd year player. The following year, he lost in game 7 of the WCSF, but it took 2 overtimes to do it and Hakeem still put up 49/25/6, iirc. And in '88, he lost a series averng 37/17 on 57% shooting. He was also great in '93, nevermind his unbelievable back to back championship runs in '94 and '95.

2.This is tough due to positions and styles. Kobe was the better volume scorer while Barkley was more consistent and tougher to guard 1 on 1 on a night to night basis. Kobe was the better defender, while Barkley obviously impacted the game much more on the boards and both were very good passers, though they used that aspect of their game in different ways with Kobe being the closest player on the Lakers to a point guard and Barkley often making passes out of double teams in the post, though Charles consistently showed an ability to handle the ball in the open court and make great passes. Kobe's prime could be considered from as early as '01 to as late as '10(though injuries caught up with him in a similar way to Barkley in '94 that year despite playing great basketball early and then in the playoffs). So maybe '01-'09 is more accurate for Kobe's prime, while Barkley's would probably be '88-'93, for peak years, Kobe's peak could be considered any season from '06-'08 and Barkley's, pretty much any season of his prime, his skills and ability were consistently similar, though I might go with '93 for Barkley's peak. It's tough to compare team success since Barkley only had a championship-caliber cast 1 year in his prime('93) and got to the finals with it. But I'll give Kobe the edge just based on the fact that i thought several of his teams overachieved and he has proven to be a champion. But he was undeniably more fortunate than Barkley.

3.I'll take C-Webb over Carmelo. Carmelo has at best been in the low part of the top 10, while Webber was in the discussion for top 5 from 2000-2002, and leading a legit championship contending team, though there were was bad luck involved such as Peja getting injured before that LA series that went to OT the 7th game anyway, and C-Webb's injury in the 2003 playoffs. Melo is more clutch, imo and a better scorer, but C-Webb impacted the game in every other area. His skill set was phenomenal. Great athlete, excellent ball handling skills for his position, a face up game and an amazing passer. The criticisms being that Webber wasn't a clutch player or good big game performer and that he settled for too many jumpers. His peak(could be argued any year from '00-'02), was better than Melo's('10), same with their best few seasons or prime.

4.Dwight Howard wins this one. Interesting because Dwight may just be entering his prime and Hill's prime was cut short. But I'm taking '11 Dwight over '97 Hill and '08-'11 Dwight over '96-'00 Hill. Howard's impact is simply bigger because he dominates the game defensively and on the boards and even before his skills improved, he was a 20+ ppg scorer on elite efficiency, now he has a nice looking post game to go along with his defense and historically great athleticism. Hill lost in the first round every year of his prime and missed the playoffs during that span, twice I believe. While Howard lost in the first round this year, he played better than Hill did in any playoff series and I can't imagine Dwight missing the playoffs.

5.I'll take Dirk over Iverson prime vs prime. Prime Iverson(From '00 or '01 until '06 or even '08 with Denver) was tougher to build around than prime Dirk('03-'11). We've seen Dirk in the WCF with 3 completely different casts, we've seen him in the finals with 2 different ones and he won a title in convincing fashion. His team has been contenders for years, and imo, there's something to be said about efficiency, also, being a 7 footer with elite shooting ability from all areas whether it be 3s, mid-range or free throws causes all kinds of match up problems. Iverson accomplished a lot in his peak season and played at a top 5 level that year, but even so, I think he required a much more specialized cast around him than Dirk.

6.I'll take Reggie over Bosh. Bosh on paper looks like he'd be a better player, but on a team that I expect to go far, I'll have to take Reggie. He may have not impacted the games in many areas other than shooting/scoring, but he could light it up, and to be able to score and do so on such great efficiency while playing that well without the ball is a great luxury. Not to mention being one of the best clutch shooters ever. Reggie led his teams to several ECF and even the finals, as one-dimensional as people like to say he is, he was definitely effective.

7.Damn, peak is tough as far as Ewing vs T-Mac. Both had peak years('90 and '03, respectively) that were well above any other season they ever had. I'll give Ewing a slight edge as far as peak due to his dominance at both ends and that '90 series vs Boston even thouh Tracy was a better offensive player. Prime becomes a little more obvious in Ewing's favor.

8.I'll take Wade over Malone if we're talking about both of them at their best. Malone's prime lasted ridiculously long, but I kind of agree with KBlaze when he talks about the way Malone got his points being much less effective in the playoffs. He may have been better for regular season wins(though he never played on teams as bad as the '07-'10 Heat), but even 2nd year Wade looked like he was one of the rare special players who can raise his game in the late rounds of the playoffs and proved it the following year with a ring and great ECF and Finals series. He was an even better, more complete player in '09.

9.Give me Mourning over Carter. Carter peaked as a top 5-7 player in '01, but peak Mourning in '00 was even better and while Vince was a better offensive player, Mourning was much more of a competitor and again, a dominant defensive force as well as the number 1 offensive option on his team.

10.Gotta go with 'Nique over Amare. Both were primarily scorers, but 'Nique was better at creating his shot, imo and thought of more highly in his era.

11.I'll take Robinson despite Paul's historically great peak for his position. Robinson was one of the greatest defensive players ever, in fact, I'd call him top 5 in the last 30 years, obviously a good scorer and a great passer for a big man. I do feel that he was overrated as a scorer, though, for some of the same reasons that Malone is, and he seemed passive in big games, but he had a huge impact on games.

12.Pippen over Kidd. Kidd is one of the greatest passers ever, was an excellent defensive player and rebounder, but Pippen was also one of the best playmakers ever at the forward position, maybe the best example of a true point forward, arguably the best perimeter defender ever(if not, he's top 3 at worst, imo), elite rebounder for his position as well and a much better scorer than Kidd due to his athleticism and ability to finish, which made him one of the best open court players, his post game as his career developed(mostly consisted of a jump hook or a turnaround jumper off the glass, but still effective) and his superior shooting ability.

Thanks for the props, bro.

You know watching basketball for so long, I can tell. And it isn't in the obvious things like how high he jumps, etc.

It's in the mannerisms. The way they move when you can tell it's over for them. When they are still at their peak, there is like a thought bubble you can almost read above their head that shows the pure arrogance of being able to do WHATEVER they want to on the court.

People jumped my case, but I could see it. And the sad thing is ... him being on the down side of his career (especially physically) flipped like a light switch sometime around late November.

Great post man, I said last summer that 2009 was likely going to remain Lebron's peak(he was pretty much as good in 2010, but the playoffs knock that season down a bit). He just never seemed like a player who was going to age that well to me given his playing style, how young he started playing big minutes ect. That's why I laughed when people were still saying last year(and he's not even in his prime yet!). I do have Miami as the favorites next year, but the window for them as the favorites isn't as big as many thought/think.

[Samurai Swoosh]

That's why I laughed when people were still saying last year(and he's not even in his prime yet!). I do have Miami as the favorites next year, but the window for them as the favorites isn't as big as many thought/think.

Absolutely ... good post.

[Bone Machine]

How did you write so much?

Would've taken me 1-2 hours.

[Human Error]

Lebron James vs Hakeem Olajuwon
Kobe Bryant vs Charles Barkley
Carmelo Anthony vs Chris Webber
Dwight Howard vs Grant Hill
Dirk Nowitzki vs Allen Iverson
Chris Bosh vs Reggie Miller
Tracy McGrady vs Patrick Ewing
Dwyane Wade vs Karl Malone
Vince Carter vs Alonzo Mourning
Amare Stoudemire vs Dominique Wilkins
Chris Paul vs David Robinson
Jason Kidd vs Scottie Pippen
Gilbert Arenas vs Michael Jordan

[D-Wade316]

Lebron James vs Hakeem Olajuwon - too early

Kobe Bryant vs Charles Barkley - Charles

Carmelo Anthony vs Chris Webber - Same

Dwight Howard vs Grant Hill - Dwight

Dirk Nowitzki vs Allen Iverson - Dirk

Chris Bosh vs Reggie Miller - Same

Tracy McGrady vs Patrick Ewing - Tracy

Dwyane Wade vs Karl Malone - Wade

Vince Carter vs Alonzo Mourning - Alonzo

Amare Stoudemire vs Dominique Wilkins - Dominique

Chris Paul vs David Robinson - too early

Jason Kidd vs Scottie Pippen - Jason

Gilbert Arenas vs Michael Jordan - MJ

good comparisons? no

[millwad]

Lebron James vs Hakeem Olajuwon (and not sure ive even seen lebrons prime/peak yet.......)

Obviously you never saw Hakeem play. Come back when LeBron actually wins a championship.. Prime Hakeem won two straight finals, LeBron is still at ZERO. Prime Hakeem is the only player to win MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same year. Beat that, LeBron James.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Obviously you never saw Hakeem play. Come back when LeBron actually wins a championship.. Prime Hakeem won two straight finals, LeBron is still at ZERO. Prime Hakeem is the only player to win MVP, DPOY and Finals MVP in the same year. Beat that, LeBron James.

Hakeem is no worse than the 2nd Best Player listed among all of these comparisons.

Lebron ROFL

[knightfall88]

u can tell me how many idiots in this thread by people choosing Lebron over Hakeem.

[Jameerthefear]

Dwight isn't in his prime.