Is Kobe in the top 25 all time?

[dubeta]

Lebron w/ shaq is a sidekick... every single time. Dude defers to udonis haslem.. hed suck shaqs d!ck.

Kobe was a sidekick to Pau freaking Gasol

Look at Win Shares

SidekickBe

btw LeBron wouldve won FMVP if he had open looks from Shaq's pressure on the defense

[tpols]

Kobe was a sidekick to Pau freaking Gasol

Look at Win Shares

SidekickBe

btw LeBron wouldve won FMVP if he had open looks from Shaq's pressure on the defense

bruh..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

I love this.

Kobe had more winshares than Shaq in 2001.. LA's most dominant run.

Kobe > Shaq. Your logic only.

[knicksman]

then where would bran be? Kobe won more with less. How embarrassing it is for lebron esp for his fans?

[dubeta]

bruh..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

I love this.

Kobe had more winshares than Shaq in 2001.. LA's most dominant run.

Kobe > Shaq. Your logic only.

so kobe's 1/5 for winshare championships?

still a sidekick

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I have him 15-20. Was a sidekick for a lot of his career, no sidekick can be top 10.

Top 15 is kinda low, top 10-12 seems about right.

Thing with Kobe I find overrated is his "IQ". I don't know how someone with this so-called 'basketball genius' can make such poor decisions on offense. His incessant need to jack up outside shots and alienate his teammates makes his team less valuable as a whole.

He really doesn't raise his teams level of play, either. Kobe didn't "carry" shit (lol @ shooting 6-24 in a game 7 during the finals). The Lakers TEAM won those 2 championships with PJax coaching ability (got the supporting cast to step up like they did).

Being selfish and a ball hog is a lot more complex than just shot attempts, though. It’s how your DECISIONS directly affect the team. You can also add in jacking up 5-6 shots in garbage time to merely bring up your personal point total, pointing the finger at teammates after losses, never taking responsibility for your own failures, and things of that nature as well.

Fringe top 10 player, and one of the crappiest high profile "team leaders" I’ve ever seen in my life, in any team sport.

[Akrazotile]

bruh..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html

I love this.

Kobe had more winshares than Shaq in 2001.. LA's most dominant run.

Kobe > Shaq. Your logic only.

The thing is tho, any of these metric systems will have what are called outliers, or anomalies. In any given game, week, month, or season something abnormal can happen. The key is to look at the pattern.


Kibe's career pattern is to consistently underwhelm in all advance metrics compared to other great players. So yes, he had an unusually high rate of win shares one year. But the pattern is clear. Kibe is simply overrated. And I like the guy. I do. But he's an overrated player, probably the most overrated of all time.

[tpols]

so kobe's 1/5 for winshare championships?

still a sidekick

He's actually 2/5 winshares.


You should be familiar with that ratio.

[dubeta]

Top 10 is already locked

in no order

MJ
Bron
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Wilt
Russell
Hakeem
Kareem

its an exclusive club, no argument for any other player, definitely no sidekicks or 45% shooters

[dubeta]

He's actually 2/5 winshares.


You should be familiar with that ratio.

Kobe's FMVP to ring ratio? yea its pretty bad

[tpols]

The thing is tho, any of these metric systems will have what are called outliers, or anomalies. In any given game, week, month, or season something abnormal can happen. The key is to look at the pattern.


Kibe's career pattern is to consistently underwhelm in all advance metrics compared to other great players. So yes, he had an unusually high rate of win shares one year. But the pattern is clear. Kibe is simply overrated. And I like the guy. I do. But he's an overrated player, probably the most overrated of all time.

same logic can be applied to POW gasol bro.. kobe destroys him in every advanced metric throughout their careers. And you using one year to discredit.. seems exactly the same.

[knicksman]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Top 15 is kinda low, top 10-12 seems about right.

Thing with Kobe I find overrated is his "IQ". I don't know how someone with this so-called 'basketball genius' can make such poor decisions on offense. His incessant need to jack up outside shots and alienate his teammates makes his team less valuable as a whole.

He really doesn't raise his teams level of play, either. Kobe didn't "carry" shit (lol @ shooting 6-24 in a game 7 during the finals). The Lakers TEAM won those 2 championships with PJax coaching ability (got the supporting cast to step up like they did).

Being selfish and a ball hog is a lot more complex than just shot attempts, though. It

[Akrazotile]

same logic can be applied to POW gasol bro.. kobe destroys him in every advanced metric throughout their careers. And you using one year to discredit.. seems exactly the same.

Not really because those metrics measure direct offensive impact and don't account as much for intangibles. So if anything, Kibe's metrics will represent his absolute maximum possible value, because he's more stats than intangibles. Whereas Gasol and Shaq (and most great bigs, and some other wings) are going to effect the game in ways that don't show up on the score sheet just by the nature of how they play. Obviously Shaq put up great stats as well but even those didnt do him jsutice.

I mean Kibe of all people should benefit from stats/metrics because his contribution is all numbers. And yet when you crunch them and look at efficiency, opponent, and various other factors... he's very underwhelming for a supposedly all-time great.

[tpols]

Not really because those metrics measure direct offensive impact and don't account as much for intangibles.

Pau is 0-16 in the playoffs without the evil Kibe..


Dem intangibles and such leaderchip.

POW!!

[dubeta]

Not really because those metrics measure direct offensive impact and don't account as much for intangibles. So if anything, Kibe's metrics will represent his absolute maximum possible value, because he's more stats than intangibles. Whereas Gasol and Shaq (and most great bigs, and some other wings) are going to effect the game in ways that don't show up on the score sheet just by the nature of how they play. Obviously Shaq put up great stats as well but even those didnt do him jsutice.

I mean Kibe of all people should benefit from stats/metrics because his contribution is all numbers. And yet when you crunch them and look at efficiency, opponent, and various other factors... he's very underwhelming for a supposedly all-time great.

joe johnson is a better overall player than kobe

[Akrazotile]

Pau is 0-16 in the playoffs without the evil Kibe..


Dem intangibles and such leaderchip.

POW!!

What are Kibe and Fisher's playoff records respectively?


edit: And please credit Kobe with 4 losses in the year he "ruptured his achilles" immediately before their doomed and inevitable sweep by the Spurs.