both magic and shaq

[abdubaba]

KAJ's best years were without Magic, if you are talking about individual performance. KAJ was the best player in the league for only one season with Magic; he was the best player as a Laker from 1975-1980. He won 2 of his 3 Laker MVP's without Magic. I see your point regarding team performance, though.



They finished the year 21-6 and 13-4 with MJ. They arguably were the second best team in the East with MJ.



Shaq without Kobe

1 ring
2 Finals
4 ECF's
MVP runner-up 2x (95', 05')

Why do people act as if Shaq did nothing without Kobe? Shaq was a top 5 player in the league every year from 1994-2005 and was top 10 in 1993 and 2006, with or without Kobe.

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research. But in all due respect. Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

[ImKobe]

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research. But in all due respect. Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

Agreed. Shaq has 1 sidekick ring to show for without Kobe while Kobe has 2 rings as the FMVP and 3 straight Finals runs. Shaq got swept in the 1st round as a defending champ in 07 and failed to win with Lebron, Nash and the Celtics big 3.

[abdubaba]

Agreed. Shaq has 1 sidekick ring to show for without Kobe while Kobe has 2 rings as the FMVP and 3 straight Finals runs. Shaq got swept in the 1st round as a defending champ in 07 and failed to win with Lebron, Nash and the Celtics big 3.

Stop bro... nobody tryna diss shaq. But when u look at it... he was mvp runner up in 2005... so he had 3 solid years without kobe.. 05 06 and 07 where he should have done more and all he has to show is the fraud 06 referee ring. Not impressive. And before 2000 kobe he was just a great center. Like ewing. Kobe helped put him over the top.

[Roundball_Rock]

Roundball bro. I like u. U can see my join date. I dont post a lot but i visit often and observe posters. U post with facts passion and research.

Thanks.

Those accomplishments u posted for shaq without kobe are nothing compared to what kobe accomplished without shaq... kobe went to 3 straight finals winning a b2b and we know about the scoring that people say he cant do without shaq and his MVP too without shaq. I see ur point and im not saying shaq did nothing without kobe but compared to what kobe did without shaq as THE man. Its not close. The one ring shaq has is a referee dwade ring

Yeah, I agree that Kobe did more without Shaq than vice versa. The caveat I would add to that is Shaq spent most of his prime with Kobe. Shaq's peak also coincided with playing with Kobe while Kobe's peak came without Shaq. Kobe had a greater opportunity to produce without Shaq in terms of time and also because he was at or near his peak more years than Shaq was. When Shaq played without Kobe he was young or declining.

If Wade did not get hurt in the ECF in 05' Shaq may have won 2 rings in Miami.

[abdubaba]

Thanks.



Yeah, I agree that Kobe did more without Shaq than vice versa. The caveat I would add to that is Shaq spent most of his prime with Kobe. Shaq's peak also coincided with playing with Kobe while Kobe's peak came without Shaq. Kobe had a greater opportunity to produce without Shaq in terms of time and also because he was at or near his peak more years than Shaq was. When Shaq played without Kobe he was young or declining.

If Wade did not get hurt in the ECF in 05' Shaq may have won 2 rings in Miami.

The problem with that argument bro is that kobes numbers with shaq are similar to his numbers post shaq years. Shaqs numbers too were great before kobe but he didnt win.

But anyways roundball my argument is that both shaq and kobe and west have put kobe as the goat laker and they have a point. But shaq is also a great laker or else he wouldnt have his jersey retired

[Roundball_Rock]

Agreed.

Yeah, Shaq was great individually but could not get over the top before Kobe despite having very good teams in Orlando with Penny, Grant and having Van Exel and Jones along with Kobe in LA.

[abdubaba]

Agreed.

Yeah, Shaq was great individually but could not get over the top before Kobe despite having very good teams in Orlando with Penny, Grant and having Van Exel and Jones along with Kobe in LA.

U made really good arguments too. But i hate when kobe stans come in dissing shaq... shaq said if he and kobe stayed together they coulda had 5 or 6 rings but the fact is kobe wanted to prove people wrong that shaq didnt make him the player he is and he proved that with 3 straight finals and b2b rings

And while kobe didnt make shaq the player he is, shaq couldnt really prove that kobe didnt make him the winner he is

[Hey Yo]

Care to explain... 3 straight finals. B2B tittles... scoring rampages. All without shaq. What did shaq do without kobe. Care to explain retard

So you're also saying that Kobe has a top 10 career even w/o the stats and rings he put up with Shaq

Not counting last year or didn't participate in playoffs due to injury in 12-13 season.

played 9yrs w/o Shaq

missed the playoffs 1x
bounced in the 1st round 2x
bounced in 2nd round 2x (swept in one of those)
made the Finals 3 straight seasons
won 2 rings and 2 FMVP's
1 reg. season MVP.
2x scoring champion

That's not even close to top 10 material

[abdubaba]

So you're also saying that Kobe has a top 10 career even w/o the stats and rings he put up with Shaq

Not counting last year or didn't participate in playoffs due to injury in 12-13 season.

played 9yrs w/o Shaq

missed the playoffs 1x
bounced in the 1st round 2x
bounced in 2nd round 2x (swept in one of those)
made the Finals 3 straight seasons
won 2 rings and 2 FMVP's
1 reg. season MVP.
2x scoring champion

That's not even close to top 10 material

Hahahahahahahaha how is that not top ten material??? 3 straight finals and b2b without colluding??? His stats from 05 to 07? Now go ahead and post shaq without kobe and tell me its top 30 material

[Hey Yo]

Hahahahahahahaha how is that not top ten material??? 3 straight finals and b2b without colluding??? His stats from 05 to 07? Now go ahead and post shaq without kobe and tell me its top 30 material

Because it's not a long enough period to be considered top 10.

Colluding or collusion means "doing something illegal." So by you stating he "without colluding" holds no merit whatsoever.

His stats in the regular season from 05-07, IN HIS PRIME, didn't lead to the 2nd round and even missed the playoffs all together.

If he was having such great years, then why the need to demand a trade after his 3rd year w/o Shaq?

[Jacks3]

Kobe is the greatest Laker ever.

No other Laker has his combination of peak play, prime play, longevity, two-way play, and team success/accolades/accomplishments.

He's pretty much had the perfect career.

[AnaheimLakers24]

Well, you can take them at their word or look at the numbers.

Numbers don't lie. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins if it's based on numbers.

Then it's a tie between Magic and Kobe based on things outside the numbers.

So....

1.KAJ
2a.Magic
2b.Kobe

Then the rest fall in line.

kobe an magic are life long lakkers though. something magic cant say

magic an kobe are more important

[abdubaba]

Because it's not a long enough period to be considered top 10.

Colluding or collusion means "doing something illegal." So by you stating he "without colluding" holds no merit whatsoever.

His stats in the regular season from 05-07, IN HIS PRIME, didn't lead to the 2nd round and even missed the playoffs all together.

If he was having such great years, then why the need to demand a trade after his 3rd year w/o Shaq?

In 8 years without shaq... as soon aa he got a half decent player in pau he went to 3 straight finals winning b2b... now go ahead and show me what shaq did without kobe

[Orlando Magic]

Because all-time greats that live & breathe basketball have no knowledge on this subject, we should all listen to the 15-20 yr old trolls on ISH, their opinion matters more.

Jerry West also said Kobe's the greatest Laker.

Because being an all-time great that lives & breathes basketball means you're NOT a moron, NOT impulsive, and or NOT seeking attention.

Michael Jordan has been the best player ever, the best GM ever, and the best owner ever. The best. Ever. At them all. Also... Mark Jackson is a good color commentator and announcer.

All-time greats that live & breathe basketball... well... their word is absolute. Don't question it. They're never wrong... ever. I agree with you!

Your logic is undeniable.

[the mesiah]

MAGIC all day for me, when I think of the LA Lakers scene for me I think of glitz ,glamour ,Hollywood ,hoes and Magic embodies all that in one.he had the charisma ,will ,leadership ,intangibles to represent a city for what it was .he made average players into well known household names ,could play anywhere from the 1-5 spots , carried on his back the team brought nba to life out the dead of the 70's.