Who was the better point guard? Kidd vs. Payton

[Pointguard]

Close, but I have Kidd clearly ahead.

Put Payton on those Net teams and I wonder if they even have a winning record, much less making it to the finals both years. That was really impressive. What Kidd did offensively in those three years was one of the most impressive runs ever. I think KMart got a max contract out of that and Richard Jefferson got a boat load of star money out of it as well. RJ even duped the best scouting team in the history of the game (San Antonio) because Kidd fooled the league about him as well. Kidd also got career years out of like three other key players those years. Scalabrini, Jason Collins and RJ likely don't have five year careers, much less ten if Kidd didn't make them look good in those playoff runs.

While Payton was among the greatest one on one defenders, Kidd had the most impressive playoff defense run ever for a front court player - the super explosives Westbrook, Wade, Kobe were all non-factors. While he wasn't the best player on Dallas, he definitely has an argument for being the most important player in that playoff run.

If you can take a last place team that had the most productive point guard (Starbury) and then take Keith Van Horn, Kerry Kittles, KMart and Richard Jefferson with a bench of Luscious Harris and Todd McCollough to the finals in one year, the ring argument is just flat out stupid. I will argue most of the top ten GOAT has no chance of taking that team to the finals in two straight years. Outside of Kidd, Kmart was the only player with a real strength, and it was defense.

And this was when Payton had all those very good all around, very smart players in Pierce, Derrick McKey, Nate McMillan, Perkins and the super talented Kemp. Later on add Deleft Shremp, Gill and Hersey Hawkins.

[CanYouDigIt]

1. Lebron
2. Kidd or Payton


2 > 1 = 1

[joeyjoejoe]

Lets be real if Kidd's team was in the west he doesn't sniff the finals

[Young X]

Payton easy. Much better offensively and better defensively. I'll take at least 10 PG's over Kidd.

[La Frescobaldi]

Payton easy. Much better offensively and better defensively. I'll take at least 10 PG's over Kidd.

what 10 are you taking over Kidd?

[TheReal Kendall]

I would take Payton.

Kidd was like a slower Rondo

[Young X]

what 10 are you taking over Kidd?

Magic
Oscar
CP
Payton
Nash
KJ
Stockton
Thomas
Frazier
Hardaway x 2
etc...

[Pointguard]

Lets be real if Kidd's team was in the west he doesn't sniff the finals

In '03 they beat SA twice which was as good as any Western conference team did - despite the fact that they didn't allow Kenyon Martin to breath on Tim Duncan. That team of nobodies also had two sweeps as well. That team overachieved like crazy for three years one way or the other. What was really amazing is that Kidd was in a new system, new coach and bad players. He almost did the ultimate with very, very little. No excuses.

[305Baller]

Kidd better all-around in cluding rebounding.
Payton better defense and offense... if that makes any sense....

[L.Kizzle]

Not a hard question at all, pretty easy actually.

Jason Kidd, is who you want to run your show. Not sure it's too many at PG you'd take over Kidd. Magic and, who else really.

Now as a player, all-around talent, you take Payton.GP was better at every single thing else on the basketball court besides passing/running a team.

[Young X]

In '03 they beat SA twice which was as good as any Western conference team did - despite the fact that they didn't allow Kenyon Martin to breath on Tim Duncan. That team of nobodies also had two sweeps as well. That team overachieved like crazy for three years one way or the other. What was really amazing is that Kidd was in a new system, new coach and bad players. He almost did the ultimate with very, very little. No excuses.

His team went from either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for 7 straight seasons in the west to instantly making the finals as soon as he went to the east. The 00's east: where 49 win teams make the finals.

[FatComputerNerd]

This topic has been debated so many times...

All other factors aside, Payton was a much better and more efficient scorer, who could take over games and be the #1 go-to alpha dog when needed.

Kidd never really had that quality, and IMO that is what gives Payton the slight edge overall.

Was Kidd the better traditional PG though? Probably.

[tpols]

His team went from either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for 7 straight seasons in the west to instantly making the finals as soon as he went to the east. The 00's east: where 49 win teams make the finals.

A 49 win team from this years east made the ECF and took the eventual champions to 7 games.

The Nets back then were battling it out with and sweeping the Detroit Pistons that would go on to clobber the 04 laker super team and take a loaded 05 spurs team down to the last quarter of a Finals game 7.

In fact the 04 Nets had a 3-2 lead on the now renowned 04 pistons before they blew it.. acting like they couldnt hang with the big boys

[Pointguard]

His team went from either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round for 7 straight seasons in the west to instantly making the finals as soon as he went to the east. The 00's east: where 49 win teams make the finals.

He was too young the first couple of years which were the only years he didn't make it to the playoffs. So dismiss that. The third year...

When a player is younger new systems really affect a young point guard - see Chris Paul, Deron Williams who are in their prime. Or Gary Payton when he was a very seasoned vet and totally looked lost 90 games deep in all seasons on three different teams (lost is an extremely kind word, cause as a point guard is never supposed to be a follower and he wasn't in control) when his career was winding down. Nonetheless lets talk about Kidd's third year in the league just the same.

In '98 Kidd takes a team where no scorer averages above 16 ppg and their leading rebounder is at 7.6 per game to the playoffs and Kidd is the second best rebounder at 6.2. Rex Chapman is their leading scorer. In his first full year with the team. This team is possibly is worse than the Nets team. This team has no strength whatsoever outside of Kidd who is in his third year.

'99 its almost the exact same thing but Gugs does go for 17 and 9 to lead the team. Kidd is first or second in nearly every category. They make the playoffs again. In '00 they lose in the second round to a steam rolling Laker team that is on a mission. But amazingly Kidd leads the team in rebounding, assist and steals. You can't beat the MDE if your point guard leads the team in assist. And perhaps you can tell us what was the strength of this team. Anfernee Hardaway comes to the team and its apparent that Scott Skiles role is to turn the team over to him as Hardaway is favored by the GM.

In '01 a control freak point guard coach Scott Skiles, strips Kidd of free reign style and it really messes up the flow. They finish 51 and 31 and finally bring in a guy who can rebound 10 a game and Shawn Marion is Kidd's best scorer in three years. Yeah imagine that for a team that made it to the second round the year before. Kidd leaves and Pheonix doesn't make it to the playoffs since Kidd had first arrived.

Amazingly Kidd made it to the playoffs for five years straight without a real scorer or rebounder. In fact he made it the finals twice, and the second round once in the West, with his leading scorers averaging about 16ppg and his leading rebounder at around 7 per game minus himself??? All teams without a real strength in individual talent without Kidd. That's amazing.

[robert de niro]

payton every single time