Kobe: "Reggie Miller is the hardest player to guard" followed by Carmelo

[Dro]

It's based on his opinion, and not based on having actually guarded them. It's idiotic for anyone to suggest they know more about basketball than actual NBA players.

Then why even have a discussion about it? This is a discussion forum and nobody on here has played against these players.

[pauk]

Was just looking up some of reggies numbers..

In 1991, he put up 23 ppg on an incomprehensible 65TS.. and had an offensive rating of 130.

Reggie has posted o ratings in the mid 120s and the highest TS's Ive ever seen for almost every year of his prime.. while scoring on signifigant volume and facing tough hard nosed defenses.


Seriously.. if you look at his numbers and combine it with his ability to wear defenders down hes got to be one of the most efficient offensive producers + best decoys(which opens up lanes for teammates) ever.

The thing which made Reggie mostly so great is that he was used as a "secret" weapon and was so damn good at it... a weapon which was initiated in the 4th quarter / clutch.... Seeing his stats on paper you wouldnt think he was that great, except the obvious seeing his shooting percentages.... Yes he averaged only up to ~25 ppg, but most of those points would come in the 4th (if not all lol)... He wasnt much of a chucker either, the max amount of fieldgoal attempts Reggie ever took was 29.... and that time he scored 57 points.....

[Sarcastic]

Then why even have a discussion about it? This is a discussion forum and nobody on here has played against these players.

We can have a discussion about it. But it's just hilarious to see people tell Kobe he is wrong.



[ISH Poster meets Kobe in the street]: "Hey Kobe, I heard what you said about who the hardest player to guard in the NBA was, and I just wanted to tell you that you are wrong. You don't know what you are talkign about. The hardest player you ever guarded was not Reggie Miller. It was Lebron."

[riseagainst]

Kobe knows exactly what he is talking about.... Jordan said something similar aswell, he even said that Reggie is the greatest off-ball player ever.... In a team game guys like Reggie are the biggest nightmares to defend and he was by far the best at it.... this is because you actually dont defend Reggie technically, you chase him.... at least try.... As a defender you will be exhausted because Reggie had arguably the best stamina in NBA history, i am talking about olympics marathon runner type of stamina and he never stood still, he did NOTHING but run & shoot entire days... you will also be bruised up and frustrated because of his bag of tricks as you will run into nothing but a wall in example. Dale Davis or hell even Reggie himself with his typical sprint-full stop flop charge, he will be running around his screens over and over... and over and over... and over... stop... change his mind... run backwards... repeat... spin, hesitate, flailing his arms around, flopping, deliberately putting his leg up when he shoots so you foul him etc.... it was just nuts...

Many fans dont understand or dont pay attention to what he did.... he was an absulute genius off the ball.... a marathon running, trashtalking, flopping, screen abusing, ice cold TROLL, a true definition of a basketball troll :)... guys "like him" (Rip Hamilton / Ray Allen etc.) who play off-ball/use screens did even admit they studied Reggie very thoroughly.... he was the greatest off-ball player & screen abuser ever... the things he did to get open was amusing to watch especially when you pay attention to his defenders chasing him around being completely lost.... and actually extremly educational if you want to learn how to take jumpshots 24-7 without ever holding the ball for more than 0.01 seconds....

Its a completely lost art nowadays, at least to anywhere close to that magnitude HE was using it... players now just want to dribble out the clock, do one unnecessary crossover and chuck it up...

great effing post. Bravo.

[VIntageNOvel]

Kobe knows exactly what he is talking about.... Jordan said something similar aswell, he even said that Reggie is the greatest off-ball player ever.... In a team game guys like Reggie are the biggest nightmares to defend and he was by far the best at it.... this is because you actually dont defend Reggie technically, you chase him.... at least try.... As a defender you will be exhausted because Reggie had arguably the best stamina in NBA history, i am talking about olympics marathon runner type of stamina and he never stood still, he did NOTHING but run & shoot entire days... you will also be bruised up and frustrated because of his bag of tricks as you will run into nothing but a wall in example. Dale Davis or hell even Reggie himself with his typical sprint-full stop flop charge, he will be running around his screens over and over... and over and over... and over... stop... change his mind... run backwards... repeat... spin, hesitate, flailing his arms around, flopping, deliberately putting his leg up when he shoots so you foul him etc.... it was just nuts...

Many fans dont understand or dont pay attention to what he did.... he was an absulute genius off the ball.... a marathon running, trashtalking, flopping, screen abusing, ice cold TROLL, a true definition of a basketball troll :)... guys "like him" (Rip Hamilton / Ray Allen etc.) who play off-ball/use screens did even admit they studied Reggie very thoroughly.... he was the greatest off-ball player & screen abuser ever... the things he did to get open was amusing to watch especially when you pay attention to his defenders chasing him around being completely lost.... and actually extremly educational if you want to learn how to take jumpshots 24-7 without ever holding the ball for more than 0.01 seconds....

Its a completely lost art nowadays, at least to anywhere close to that magnitude HE was using it... players now just want to dribble out the clock, do one unnecessary crossover and chuck it up...

Finally a post from pauk that doesnt mention lebron

[tontoz]

I have seen other guys say the same thing. And don't underestimate Miller's scoring ability. He has a career TS% of 61.4%.

I remember an announcer asking Miller how he handled Bruce Bowen's physical defense. Miller said "He can't hold what he can't catch".

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Pretty easy to score efficiently when you use your entire team as screens and just keep running until you get an open shot

Just like its pretty easy to score when youre 7"1 over 300lbs, stronger than everyone at your position, and mainly dunk on people

People are amazed at this efficiency yet they frown upon Iversons percentages when the shots he took were much more difficult....obviously his percentages would be lower

[tontoz]

Pretty easy to score when you use your entire team as screens and just keep running until you get an open shot

Just like its pretty easy to score when youre 7"1 over 300lbs, stronger than everyone at your position, and mainly dunk on people

Easy? Ever hear of the word fatigue?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Easy? Ever hear of the word fatigue?

Reggie was in excellent aerobic shape.

My point is...although he has definitely hit some big time shots over the outstretched arms of defenders, he was mainly taking open jumpers

[tontoz]

Reggie was in excellent aerobic shape.

My point is...although he has definitely hit some big time shots over the outstretched arms of defenders, he was mainly taking open jumpers

The reason he got separation from his defender is because of the amount of effort he expended running around the court. It isn't like he was shooting standstill jumpers. He was shooting jumpers on the move which are much tougher shots to make.

If it was easy you would see a lot of guys doing it. The reality is that very few have the speed, stamina and shooting ability to play like Miller did.

[Bigsmoke]

I would think it would be Lebron or Iverson but whatever

[Sarcastic]

I would think it would be Lebron or Iverson but whatever

Have you guarded all these guys, and have real world experience, or are you just talking out your ass?


Kobe has real life experiences guarding all of them. Something tells me that he knows who it's harder for him to guard, than you know who's harder for him to guard.

[Dro]

Reggie was in excellent aerobic shape.

My point is...although he has definitely hit some big time shots over the outstretched arms of defenders, he was mainly taking open jumpers

This is false...I've seen almost every game he's ever played in and he has hit more than his fair share of contest jumpers.

[secund2nun]

What? Popovich had Lebron on an island with his defender sagging How ridiculous.. Lebron is almost NEVER doubled because of his ability to hit the open man. Defenders collapse in the paint on him, but doubling refers to sending an extra defender when a player first recieves the ball in order to get it out of his hands.


Lebron gets the rondo treatment with his scoring because its easier to poke holes in his arsenal. I wont argue melo because youre right he sucks, but Reggie is definitely a superior pure scoring threat.

Lebron's defender was sagging because Lebron is an elite force in paint scoring, something that Melo and Miller can only dream of.

Lebron= much better PPG, much better PPS, and much better fg% all throughout his career than Melo and Miller all while facing much heavier coverage. Lebron is doubled because no one can stop him from going into the paint one on one and scoring with ease.

To say Miller and Melo are better scorers than Lebron is like saying Carson Palmer is a better passer than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

[secund2nun]

Did you even read what I wrote?

When Lebron is doubled, he doesn't score well. He will make the right play and pass it to the open teammate, which makes him so dangerous.

When he is played honestly, he scores well. Pop put different defenders on Bron and dared him to shoot, having the defenders he put on Lebron sag (aside from Green). This makes Lebron uncomfortable because while he is a good shooter now, he's not usually sagged off of that much.

Jokes on Pop though, Lebron caught fire Game 7.

EDIT: Forgot about Reggie and Melo.

Reggie needs to have single coverage because he is mostly an off-ball player. If you have two players chasing him around, yes... he can be stopped but you'll be playing 4 on 3. No one doubles Reggie for this reason.

Melo will get a shot off, and possibly score at a higher rate with double coverage than Lebron would if you take out all other teammates on the court. Melo is kind of like Kobe in that regard. He can get the shot off and score at a reasonably good percentage (at least last season) despite taking bad shots with hands in his face.

No one doubled Reggie because he was not good enough to double.

Lebron scores well when he is doubled. In fact, he scores MUCH better when doubled than Melo or Miller when doubled. You pulled that statement out of thin air.

Pop sagged off of Lebron because of Lebron's elite paint scoring ability, not because of his passing. Maybe if Melo wasn't such a pathetic finisher at the rim teams would do the same to him.

To even compare Melo and Miller's scoring to Lebron's scoring is like comparing Chris Bosh's defense to Tim Duncan's defense.

Melo is an extremely overrated scorer when doubled, single covered, triple covered. He is a low efficiency shot jacker. Getting shots off means nothing if they are low percentage chucks from down town (unless of course you are an ACTUAL legit scorer like Durant, not some fraud like Melo).