So why exactly does Wilt rank so high on the all time list?

[TheMarkMadsen]

What exactly are we basing his ranking on..

Seems like the only 2 players we are 'allowed' to take seriously from this era are Russelll & Wilt, Russell because literally all he did was win and Wilt because of his...stats..

The justification for Wilt seems extremely hypocritical..

why do we brush off the stats of other greats from that time sans Wilt?..Oscar Robertson averaged a 30 point triple double his first 4 years in the league

Elgin Baylor (a 6'5 guard mind you) averaged 35/20/5 (yes, 20 rpg for a guy who was 6'5 ) a year prior to the season where Wilt averaged 50ppg and 26rebounds..

Except there is a big difference in the "stats department" when looking at a guy like Oscar & a guy like Wilt.. which is that Oscars stats translated into the playoffs, while Wilts did not

Wilt never averaged the oh so lauded 50ppg in the playoffs, ever.

Did Oscar ever average his oh so lauded triple double in the playoffs? He sure did.

Why don't these guys get the validation for their godly stats the way Wilt does?


The main argument for Wilts place all time is his dominant scoring.. So I ask you, where was this dominate scoring in playoff series wins, and if the only time he ever won in the playoffs was when he dramatically scaled back his scoring, then exactly how "dominant" was that scoring in the first place?

Wilts highest playoff ppg during a championship run was 21.7.. D Wade playing second fiddle to Lebron averaged more than that during the 2012 playoffs..

So obviously Wilts scoring didnt equal success in the playoffs as he only won after significantly taking a back seat scoring.

So are we basing his ranking soley off regular season scoring? Because he definitely doesn't deserve a top 5 ranking based off his post season play. His 2nd title came as a glorified Dennis Rodman, again, is this what puts him so high?

Here's my final thought..

When you think of the greatness of Jordan, what cements his legacy more for you? The 1987 regular season or the 3peats?

Same question for Kobe, is it the 2006 regular season, or the multiple sets of b2b championships

Is it Lebrons spectacular regular season stats with the cavs, or his championships with the HEAT that solidified his greatness?

You're probably thinking to yourself "It's a little bit of both" and my answer would be you're exactly right. Because not only did those guys show their statistical dominance in the regular season, but they also dominated statstiy while winning championships (note the plural), same goes for Bird, Magic, Duncan, Hakeem & others.

Now lets ask the question for Wilt, what cements his legacy for you? Regular season dominance..

[riseagainst]

he honestly shouldn't. People say he has an argument for the GOAT. He's arguably not even a top 10 GOAT.

[StephHamann]

he ****ed 20.000 hoes and fought a mountain lion and could take down arnie 1vs1 brah

[WillC]

I think it's perfectly acceptable to rank Wilt Chamberlain as high as second all-time. I won't waste time listing his achievements as they are readily available.

However, I do agree with the OP that it seems strange that modern day fans are so happy to rank Wilt and Bill Russell in the top 5 of all-time but quick to dismiss the achievements of other players of yesteryear.

The best example is George Mikan.

It seems odd that many people rank Wilt as the 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all-time.... and yet those same people rank Mikan down in the 30s. Mikan had more team success and was equally unstoppable.

Either we rank players based upon their achievements (in which case Mikan is easily top 10 all-time) or we rank them on their ability (in which case Mikan doesn't crack the top 100).

It seems odd to try to do a combination of the two.

[robert_shaww]

he honestly shouldn't. People say he has an argument for the GOAT. He's arguably not even a top 10 GOAT.

[riseagainst]

Mikan > Wilt.

[G.O.A.T]

I think the OP misses the point largely on Wilt as does anyone who cites his 50ppg among his top achievements. A 50ppg Wilt was the result of misguided coaching. When it came time to win the team always had to abandon the feed Wilt at all costs mentality. Jordan, Kobe and probably several others could have averaged 50 ppg in their era if they were feed the ball as frequently as Wilt was in 1962.

Wilt's greatest years are from 1964-1973 (with a few hiccups) when he learned to play a team game and was not distracted by individual achievements that undermined the team.

Wilt is a Top ten player all-time. I can't abide him outside the top six as it is now. I've had him as high as third in the past five years ans still see a case for him in that spot.

Either we rank players based upon their achievements (in which case Mikan is easily top 10 all-time) or we rank them on their ability (in which case Mikan doesn't crack the top 100).

It seems odd to try to do a combination of the two.

I think it is a combination with context figured into both aspects. Put Mikan's achievements in context and they are lessened, put his ability in context and it is heightened.

My result, like you I think he is irrefutably among the top class of players. I currently have him between 10-12.

[GrapeApe]

Wilt's production dropoff in the playoffs is pretty significant. It's probably the most damning aspect of his resume and it lends credence to the idea him being a stat padder. That being said he's clearly the most dominant player in history relative to his competition. All time rankings are obviously subjective so depending on the critera one values I can understand why some consider him the GOAT or at the very least in the discussion.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I think the OP misses the point largely on Wilt as does anyone who cites his 50ppg among his top achievements. A 50ppg Wilt was the result of misguided coaching. When it came time to win the team always had to abandon the feed Wilt at all costs mentality. Jordan, Kobe and probably several others could have averaged 50 ppg in their era if they were feed the ball as frequently as Wilt was in 1962.

Wilt's greatest years are from 1964-1973 (with a few hiccups) when he learned to play a team game and was not distracted by individual achievements that undermined the team.

Wilt is a Top ten player all-time. I can't abide him outside the top six as it is now. I've had him as high as third in the past five years ans still see a case for him in that spot.




I think it is a combination with context figured into both aspects. Put Mikan's achievements in context and they are lessened, put his ability in context and it is heightened.

My result, like you I think he is irrefutably among the top class of players. I currently have him between 10-12.

what did Wilt from 64-73 that justifies him being ranked as high as he is?

He wasnt winning more than any other top 10 guys, when he did win he wasn't winning with the statistical dominance like other greats did dying their playoff run?

Maybe you say he learned to play more within the team, and rebounded well and had great intangibles.. But that doesn't make somebody an all time great,

He didnt win championships playing the way he is remembered, he won championships after taking a major back seat offensively and focusing more on the other things, David Robinson did that too but nobody ever attributes his championships to his regular season greatness, they acknowledge that he wasn't able to win as the man, and only won after taking a back seat..

But somehow Wilt gets his championships & dominant regular season play thrown into the same bag, a lot people just assume that Wilts regular season dominance = championships, which is simply not true.

[-23-]

I think the OP misses the point largely on Wilt as does anyone who cites his 50ppg among his top achievements. A 50ppg Wilt was the result of misguided coaching. When it came time to win the team always had to abandon the feed Wilt at all costs mentality. Jordan, Kobe and probably several others could have averaged 50 ppg in their era if they were feed the ball as frequently as Wilt was in 1962.

Wilt's greatest years are from 1964-1973 (with a few hiccups) when he learned to play a team game and was not distracted by individual achievements that undermined the team.

Wilt is a Top ten player all-time. I can't abide him outside the top six as it is now. I've had him as high as third in the past five years ans still see a case for him in that spot.




I think it is a combination with context figured into both aspects. Put Mikan's achievements in context and they are lessened, put his ability in context and it is heightened.

My result, like you I think he is irrefutably among the top class of players. I currently have him between 10-12.

Great post. Unbiased unlike the shit that Laz constant spits out. I personally have Wilt @ #5 after Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Russell

[gts]

he honestly shouldn't. People say he has an argument for the GOAT. He's arguably not even a top 10 GOAT.

Stop saying ridiculous things...

We rank Wilt high because he's one of the greatest talents to ever play the game, if you don't see that or refuse to see it you need to find another sport to talk about..

anywhere between 3-8 is a solid discussion

[WillC]

He didnt win championships playing the way he is remembered, he won championships after taking a major back seat offensively and focusing more on the other things

Please take the time to read this and educate yourself:

Wilt Chamberlain's 1967 was the greatest peak ever, in my opinion. It's relatively hard to argue with the following (and no, it's not just about stats - please read the detail):

Regular season: 24.1ppg, 24.2rpg, 7.8apg, .683 FG%

Playoffs: 21.7ppg, 29.1rpg, 9.0apg, .579 FG%

Achievements:
- Regular season MVP
- NBA champion
- Finals MVP (didn't exist back then but, if it did, he would have won it for sure)
- 68-15 regular season record
- Wilt's 1967 Warriors were the only team to ever defeat a healthy Bill Russell-led Boston Celtics team in a playoff series
- In Game 1 against Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals, Wilt Chamberlain had a quadruple-double with 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and (an unofficial) 12 blocks.
- One of only two times a player has ever been top 5 in PPG, RPG and APG (Wilt also did it in 1967-68).
- In round 1 of the playoffs, Wilt's Philadelphia 76ers disposed of Oscar Robertson's Cincinnati Royals. In that series, Wilt averaged 28ppg, 26.8rpg and 11.0apg on 61% shooting.
- In round 2, the 76ers defeated the Boston Celtics 4-1. Wilt averaged 21.6ppg, 32.0rpg and 10.0apg on 56% shooting versus Russell's 11.4ppg, 23.4rpg and 6.0apg on 36% shooting. In other words, Wilt Chamberlain completely dominated Bill Russell.
- In the finals, Wilt helped the 76ers beat the San Francisco Warriors, who featured Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond.

That is the most transcendent season in NBA history.

[SouBeachTalents]

Please take the time to read this and educate yourself:

Wilt Chamberlain's 1967 was the greatest peak ever, in my opinion. It's relatively hard to argue with the following (and no, it's not just about stats - please read the detail):

Regular season: 24.1ppg, 24.2rpg, 7.8apg, .683 FG%

Playoffs: 21.7ppg, 29.1rpg, 9.0apg, .579 FG%

Achievements:
- Regular season MVP
- NBA champion
- Finals MVP (didn't exist back then but, if it did, he would have won it for sure)
- 68-15 regular season record
- Wilt's 1967 Warriors were the only team to ever defeat a healthy Bill Russell-led Boston Celtics team in a playoff series
- In Game 1 against Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals, Wilt Chamberlain had a quadruple-double with 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and (an unofficial) 12 blocks.
- One of only two times a player has ever been top 5 in PPG, RPG and APG (Wilt also did it in 1967-68).
- In round 1 of the playoffs, Wilt's Philadelphia 76ers disposed of Oscar Robertson's Cincinnati Royals. In that series, Wilt averaged 28ppg, 26.8rpg and 11.0apg on 61% shooting.
- In round 2, the 76ers defeated the Boston Celtics 4-1. Wilt averaged 21.6ppg, 32.0rpg and 10.0apg on 56% shooting versus Russell's 11.4ppg, 23.4rpg and 6.0apg on 36% shooting. In other words, Wilt Chamberlain completely dominated Bill Russell.
- In the finals, Wilt helped the 76ers beat the San Francisco Warriors, who featured Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond.

That is the most transcendent season in NBA history.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Please take the time to read this and educate yourself:

Wilt Chamberlain's 1967 was the greatest peak ever, in my opinion. It's relatively hard to argue with the following (and no, it's not just about stats - please read the detail):

Regular season: 24.1ppg, 24.2rpg, 7.8apg, .683 FG%

Playoffs: 21.7ppg, 29.1rpg, 9.0apg, .579 FG%

Achievements:
- Regular season MVP
- NBA champion
- Finals MVP (didn't exist back then but, if it did, he would have won it for sure)
- 68-15 regular season record
- Wilt's 1967 Warriors were the only team to ever defeat a healthy Bill Russell-led Boston Celtics team in a playoff series
- In Game 1 against Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals, Wilt Chamberlain had a quadruple-double with 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and (an unofficial) 12 blocks.
- One of only two times a player has ever been top 5 in PPG, RPG and APG (Wilt also did it in 1967-68).
- In round 1 of the playoffs, Wilt's Philadelphia 76ers disposed of Oscar Robertson's Cincinnati Royals. In that series, Wilt averaged 28ppg, 26.8rpg and 11.0apg on 61% shooting.
- In round 2, the 76ers defeated the Boston Celtics 4-1. Wilt averaged 21.6ppg, 32.0rpg and 10.0apg on 56% shooting versus Russell's 11.4ppg, 23.4rpg and 6.0apg on 36% shooting. In other words, Wilt Chamberlain completely dominated Bill Russell.
- In the finals, Wilt helped the 76ers beat the San Francisco Warriors, who featured Rick Barry and Nate Thurmond.

That is the most transcendent season in NBA history.

Please take time to finish highlighting what I said..

Because your stats go along with what I said.

24ppg regular season

21 ppg post season.

Is that not taking a step back offensively for a guy who spent the first 6 years of his career scoring 30+ per game?

He was the 5th leading scorer on his own team in those finals.

[G.O.A.T]

what did Wilt from 64-73 that justifies him being ranked as high as he is?

He won four MVPs and two titles as his teams best player, plus led his teams to four other NBA finals losing to very good to great teams in the annals of NBA history.

He wasnt winning more than any other top 10 guys

He was winning more consistently than Kobe, Shaq or Hakeem and as consistently as Kareem, Bird and LeBron in the best ten year stretch of their careers, he has as many titles as the man as Kobe, Hakeem or LeBron. He has more MVPs than anyone except Russ, MJ and Kareem, he certainly fits in better with that group than he would outside it.

when he did win he wasn't winning with the statistical dominance like other greats did dying their playoff run?

Show me another guy who averaged 22-29-9 on 58% shooting for a title run as Wilt did in '67. Or someone who can better 20-25-5 over an eight year playoff run with the highest fg% in basketball and playing the best or second best defense in the league.

Maybe you say he learned to play more within the team, and rebounded well and had great intangibles.. But that doesn't make somebody an all time great,

If they have four MVP's and are the best rebounder ever and among the greatest defenders ever, yes it does.

He didnt win championships playing the way he is remembered,

Correction, they way he is thought of by you.

He is not rembered by basketball people or historians as a scorer only. Or as the guy who scored 100. That's a casual fans image of Wilt, that doesn't matter anymore than a casual music fans opinion of the Beatles.

he won championships after taking a major back seat offensively and focusing more on the other things
David Robinson did that too but nobody ever attributes his championships to his regular season greatness, they acknowledge that he wasn't able to win as the man, and only won after taking a back seat..

Wilt was still the man on his teams though, and an MVP candidate, that's a major difference.

Don't mistake his scoring going down in the playoffs slightly during some of those years for him being less effective. He had learned early on to adjust his game for what his team needed in must win games. The evidence is there when you look at his approach as early as 1962 against the Celtics.

But somehow Wilt gets his championships & dominant regular season play thrown into the same bag, a lot people just assume that Wilts regular season dominance = championships, which is simply not true.

If people assume that, they are wrong, but that doesn't mean the things he did do to win are null in void. There are a lot of things I consider fair criticism of Chamberlain, some that you mentioned in your OP. Wilt could and should have been greater, this is true. But he was still, unquestionably, an all-time great.