Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-09-2019, 12:57 PM   #1
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

I would like someone to explain to me why telling them so isnt it.

Its been happening for 50+ years with mostly positive results.

Its the people who dont say a word and then walk who leave franchises scrambling.

Lets us visit several...

And for now I will ignore those before unrestricted free agency started since those players technically couldnt walk without a judge being involved. late 70s 87 you could sign somewhere but the teams had to work out a compensation package or have the league do it for them. Which is why Moses Malone was "traded" to the 76ers when it was really a free agent signing. Lets stick to demands after somewhat modern CBAs kicked in.

I'll cover those I can remember with articles to refresh any I dont assume we all remember clearly"



Chris Paul:

Quote:
Chris Paul's agent has told the New Orleans Hornets that Paul will not sign a contract extension and wants to be traded to the New York Knicks, Yahoo! Sports has reported, citing league sources.

But Hornets general manager Dell Demps, who has heard several trade overtures for the All-Star point guard, wants to meet with Paul and hear that from him, once lockout-related restrictions on front office contact with players are lifted, according to the report.

Demps declined to meet with reporters on Thursday, but has said that his top priority is to work on an extension.

Of course he actually went to LA...after the basketball reasons situation im sure you dont need a refresher on.





Tmac:


Quote:
Tired of carrying a mediocre franchise, McGrady vowed to
exercise the opt-out clause in his contract that was to go into
effect at the end of next season. But Orlando did not want him to
leave without the team receiving compensation -- like O'Neal did
eight years ago.

He admitted he asked out:

Quote:
ďI just knew it was going to take time. Iím happy and itís time to move on. I canít predict the future, but it definitely would be nice. The ultimate goal is to win a championship for the Houston Rockets. Bring me a championship, big man. Bring me a championship. Iíve led the league in scoring two consecutive years. As long as we win, thatís all that matters to me. Iím going to try to go in there and do what I do. If that consists of me sacrificing, giving Yao the ball and playing through other guys, thatís what Iíll do. I think both teams are going to benefit from this trade. I got want I wanted. Orlando got three solid players. Houston was definitely the No. 1 team on my list,Ē Mcgrady said.


Jason Kidd

Quote:
Disgruntled New Jersey Nets point guard Jason Kidd no longer wants to play basketball in the Meadowlands.

Kidd, 34, revealed Monday that he wants the Nets, losers of nine straight games and 18-26 overall, to trade him.

"We tried to make this work," he told ESPN The Magazine.

"We have found out it doesn't. It is time for us all to move on."

"I don't personalize it," Nets head coach Lawrence Frank said. "I'm more disappointed about where we are as a team right now.

Kidd, one of the most flamboyant point guards in NBA history, leads the league with 21 triple-doubles this season ó and active players with 98 in a career, trailing only Oscar Robertson (181) and Magic Johnson (138).

Kidd has started 43 games this season, averaging 11.3 points, 10.4 assists, 8.3 rebounds, 1.6 steals and 37.4 minutes.

"The reality is we are only looking to make deals that make sense for us," Nets president Rod Thorn said. "If every time someone said, 'I want you to trade me,' you acquiesced, then you put yourself in a very vulnerable position because you have a revolving door."

They actually tried to trade him to Dallas before that but Devean George of all people vetoed the deal. He was one of a few players in the league at the time able to refuse a trade despite not having a no trade clause. I wont bother explaining how because you dont care. Point is...Kidd wanted out. Got Devin Harris and 2 first rounders(Ryan Anderson and Jordan Crawford).







Barkley"


Quote:
"We were looking for a package, and once those names were there, we felt it was the package that would get it done," Lynam said. "Charles has said he wants to be be on a contender, and in all honesty, if we had kept Charles, I'm not sure we could strike that posture. We had to make changes. No one in our organization felt we could come back with the same team."

He knew it would be Portland, La, or the Suns. He was almost traded to LA for James worthy. Teams agreed. He was informed...he went out and got drunk to celebrate then Philly called it off and he played a game blackout drunk apparently. He admitted to it several times. Once on Jimmy Kimmel.

His Suns trade was also after he asked out but why depends on who you ask. He says he heard they called others teams about him and planned a 3 way trade that would have sent him to the Rockets and Mutombo to the Suns from Denver with Cassell and Horry to Denver. Heres some info on that


Quote:
"I just want to be respected - I feel I've earned that," Barkley said after Wednesday's blowout win. "Everybody has an opinion. It's just a matter of pride. I think that (former NBA player and assistant coach) Paul Silas says it best - all you have in your life is your pride and your family. I'm going to always take care of my family, and I'm always going to have great pride in myself."

During player introductions prior to Wednesday's exhibition in Phoenix, Barkley received an enthusiastic ovation - with just a slight smattering of boos and catcalls. Practically all of the numerous fan-held signs throughout the arena called for the Valley of the Sun's favorite son to stay put - and some suggesting it be at the expense of Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, who brought Barkley to Arizona four seasons ago.

"Keep Barkley, trade Colangelo" read more than one sign.

Barkley - the most vocal and visible of the NBA's nearly 150 free agents this summer - appreciated the outpouring of affection and appreciation from the Phoenix fans. But he also anticipated what today's transactions might bring.

"They made me feel very special tonight, but I'm looking forward to tomorrow."

He reiterated that his frustration revolved around pride and respect and not money - "you'll never hear me talk about money," he said - and that he planned on keeping a resident in Phoenix.

But Barkley left the door open - albeit very slightly - for a return to the Suns next season. "If they came to me and we sat down and they said, `Listen, we're just idiots' - that might make me feel better. That might be enough.

"If they walked in now and said, `We are a bunch of idiots, we're sorry for trading all of your help away, we apologize for shopping you around like a piece of meat, will you finish your career here in Phoenix?' - I say I would love to."
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 12:59 PM   #2
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Baron Davis supposedly told the Hornets he wouldnt come back which is how he was traded for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis(burn).







Dwight Howard:



Quote:
Howard, in an interview with Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports, reiterated his demand for a trade request from Orlando and shot down an ESPN story that cited sources saying he accused the Magic of “blackmailing” him into signing away his right to enter free agency this summer:

“I never used the word blackmail in reference to any of my dealings with the Magic,” Howard said. “I never said that. It’s defamatory and it’s inaccurate. I know what blackmail means and any report that I used the term incorrectly is inaccurate.”

Howard met with new Magic general manager Rob Hennigan on Friday in Los Angeles, and said he told Hennigan of his desire to be traded. However, Howard insisted he was merely repeating a position he had made clear to Magic officials since waiving his ETO in March.

“This was not the first time [that I asked for trade],” Howard said. “I communicated this to [Magic president] Alex [Martins] and [former general manager] Otis [Smith] way before Friday that I wanted to be traded – months before this meeting with Rob Hennigan. That was all way before Stan [Van Gundy] got fired.”



Ended up moving for Vucevic and the pick that ended up Dario Saric and the resulting tank got them the pick that would be Victor Oladipo. They didnt keep them all but id say a sulking Dwight for another all star center, a lottery pick, and a rebuild that landed them the #2 pick isnt bad.



Carmelo you all remember. Got the Nuggets:

Quote:
Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, a 2014 first-round pick and the swap rights in 2016.

The 2016 Swap? Thats how the Nuggets got Jamal Murray at #7. That was supposed to be the Knicks pick.


Kyrie you remember. Cavs got nothing of note back since IT never got healthy. They could have told him he had 2 full years left then traded him this week but....whatever.



VC demanded out with 3 full years and an option year left:


Quote:
After months of biting his lip, Raptors guard Vince Carter says he wants out of Toronto. According to Thursday's Toronto Star, Carter has discussed his feelings with Raptors general manager Rob Babcock and first-year coach Sam Mitchell, saying "it's just time for me to look after me."

Carter, rumoured to be on the move since the end of last season, added he went public because he's frustrated Babcock hasn't moved quickly enough to send him elsewhere.

Babcock on Thursday told the Associated Press that Carter won't be moved. "He's under contract with our team," he said. "We expect him to fulfil all obligations of the contract."

Numerous reports over the summer claimed Carter was unhappy with the direction of the NBA team and with not being consulted in major Raptor decisions such as the hiring of Babcock and Mitchell.

Babcock acknowledged the trade demand is an "issue" for the franchise, but he said "it's not really an issue" because he's under contract. "Is it the ideal way going to camp? No," Babcock said. "But it's really not the nightmare that other people think it is."

Carter reportedly wants to go to an Eastern Conference team, ideally the New York Knicks, Miami Heat or Orlando Magic.

However, dealing Carter won't be easy, given the fact he has three years ‚€“ plus a fourth at his option ‚€“ remaining on a six-year, $90 million US contract extension signed after the 2000-01 season.

Carter remains one of the NBA's most popular players because of his highlight-reel dunks, but he has lost some of his explosiveness over the last four years because of knee injuries.

"If he comes in with an open mind that's all we want," Babcock said. "He hasn't had an opportunity to play under this system and see what it's like to be a part of this basketball team. This is a whole new era."



That may be the most brutal of them. 3 years left? That one id understand some fan/team anger.

But most of these?


How does the team benefit from the player staying quiet and not asking out when hes gonna leave for nothing?


Kwahi, Paul George, and Butler all got good packages for their teams recent enough for me not to go into detail.

Kobe and Hakeem both demanded trades in public but the teams didnt blink and both won 2 rings shortly after. Kobe was going to chicago for Deng, Tyrus Thomas, Gordon, and Noah but decided he wouldnt go unless Deng stayed in Chicago and Hakeem was in a deal for Glen Rice, Steve Smith, and Rony Seikaly but the Heat decided that was too much. Later it was lowered to Seikaly, Harold Minor, and Grant Long. The Heat decided not to and instead traded Glen Rice for Zo to rebuild that way a year or so later.

They could have had Hakeem and Zo with the nastiest defensive twin towers ever....and STILL added Tim Hardaway because none of the players traded for him were in either the Hakeem or Zo deals.

They could have had a

Timmy
Steve Smith
Zo
Hakeem

Core if things fell into place properly. But...im getting away from the point.



Point is....all these stars(Baron Davis aside who waiting till his last trade deadline) brought back at LEAST massive offers.

All of which are no doubt better than nothing.

So....

Isnt a trade request when you can walk the best thing you can do for a team?

All that "This is a business..." talk doesnt stop emotion from seeping in when a team feels a player is making them look bad does it?

Really....emotion is the only problem here.

There is every basketball and financial reason to prefer a player ask out early as opposed to leaving or asking with like 2 weeks left before his final trade deadline when other teams know you have to take whatever they offer or get nothing.

Is there any other situation where doing the best thing for your current team is considered reason to hate?

You actually want a guy on your team to quietly play out his deal then walk with nothing in return? You think a quiet in house trade demand doesnt get out once you call another team? In this era with all the sources leaking info?


Please tell me...


How is a trade demand a year early NOT the best thing to do for your team if you arent coming back? The teams that wait till the final trade deadline tend to get raped...
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:03 PM   #3
FKAri
NBA Superstar
 
FKAri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,269
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

uhhh....meltdown?

But ya I agree though.
FKAri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:06 PM   #4
Ben Simmons 25
Decent college freshman
 
Ben Simmons 25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Telling them over a year early is easily the best way to do it in terms of looking out for the franchise.

Anyone who says otherwise is foolish.

AD did the Pelicans a solid and in turn they acted childish and unprofessional and continue to do so.



I don't think guaranteed contracts should go away, but I do think players being locked into 5 year deals needs to go away. The players should just have player options every single year of their deals... but they should come at great financial cost.

So say something like... you get a player option every single year after your rookie deal on any contracts going forward... BUT you can only sign for like half annually on what you would for another team...

Or maybe... declining salary the more times you opt out in any given year...

There are plenty of ways to address it to minimize movement but all the "trade me" drama needs to just end. Just make it so players can opt out yearly and give them heavy financial incentives to remain where they are.
Ben Simmons 25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:10 PM   #5
kennethgriffen
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ISH Legend since 2009
Posts: 9,524
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

i think players have far too much control and the team that drafts a player should have their rights for as long as they're willing to extend them


whatever amount they're eligible for as long as the team matches it they keep that player


if they get upset and demand a trade the team has the right to keep paying them and basically sitting them for as long as they want. or the player can quit the nba/forfeit his contract and go to a different league to play basketball
kennethgriffen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:11 PM   #6
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,767
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Telling the team as early as possible and doing it privately, not publicly.

While also telling them your preferred teams list that you'd most likely sign with.
DMAVS41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:13 PM   #7
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
uhhh....meltdown?

But ya I agree though.

Its...mostly quotes from articles from things many likely forgot. Quite a few of them said a lot more than Anthony Davis has. And I forgot one..

Shawn Kemp and Vin Baker both wanted out. Bucks got Terrell Brandon, Sonics got Vin Baker, and Cavs got Kemp.

One drank himself out of the league, one ate himself out, and one got injured but nobody really ended up any worse off.

Trade demands are really the best thing you can do once you know youre leaving. The earlier the better. With years left on your deal the team should get a solid haul.

The Raptors getting an injured/no kidney Zo as contract filler, Aaron Williams, and two non lottery first rounders for prime 27 year old VC with 3 years left was pretty awful....but thats just bad management.

You would get a whole new future for that under most situations.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:15 PM   #8
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
There are plenty of ways to address it to minimize movement but all the "trade me" drama needs to just end. Just make it so players can opt out yearly and give them heavy financial incentives to remain where they are.

Baron Davis said a few days ago hed take half the money to play in LA over NO. I dont know if he said it to them when he asked for the trade....but he did get traded to California for peanuts. He said NO isnt a basketball town. Plus...hes from LA.

Hes a bit of an exception im sure but no doubt a lot of guys would leave half the money on the table to get out.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:16 PM   #9
BigShotBob
Local High School Star
 
BigShotBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,410
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Demanding a trade a year out is how most players have done it if they were in a nightmarish situation. Most players I believe have it in their heads that by the time free agency rolls around that they will leave (Shaq, KD, Lebron, among others).

AI had a love-hate relationship with Larry Brown and sometimes a player's attitude towards their franchise (Melo, Kawhi, Barkley, Jimmy Butler, Kareem too iirc) can practically force the front office's hands to move you in order to get rid of a headache.

I think the better question is: what is the worst way to deal with it?

The worst way is to go on national television and say "I'm not going anywhere" (Dwight) and then leaving anyways.

Or to go on national television and make a spectacle out of you refusing to resign (Lebron)

Or to keep your franchise and teammates in the dark about your intentions until it's too late (KD)

Or finally to have your agent release the information to the public before the front office can catch wind of it (AD)

The scenarios above are just asinine stunts to pull and is quite frankly unprofessional in my mind. It's like leaving your job without putting in your two week's notice. You'll never be able to list that job as a future reference that's for sure. And it's why when those players leave their loyalty is always in question.
BigShotBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:17 PM   #10
Ben Simmons 25
Decent college freshman
 
Ben Simmons 25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Baron Davis said a few days ago hed take half the money to play in LA over NO. I dont know if he said it to them when he asked for the trade....but he did get traded to California for peanuts. He said NO isnt a basketball town. Plus...hes from LA.

Hes a bit of an exception im sure but no doubt a lot of guys would leave half the money on the table to get out.

If you're literally willing to leave half of your salary on the table, then you shouldn't be forced to play in that situation anyways. Just my opinion.
Ben Simmons 25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:20 PM   #11
Ben Simmons 25
Decent college freshman
 
Ben Simmons 25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

The NBA has a lot of dogshit franchises that aren't really interested in being anything other than dogshit so long as they're making money.

They pretend like making money isn't the number one priority, but that's just pretend. They're pretending... SO that they can make more money... a lot of these franchises don't give a **** about winning.

The league has too many franchises period. And a ton of them are clueless dogshit. Forcing players that actually do care about winning into those situations just sucks.
Ben Simmons 25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:21 PM   #12
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,767
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Baron Davis said a few days ago hed take half the money to play in LA over NO. I dont know if he said it to them when he asked for the trade....but he did get traded to California for peanuts. He said NO isnt a basketball town. Plus...hes from LA.

Hes a bit of an exception im sure but no doubt a lot of guys would leave half the money on the table to get out.

Well, yea, and this is where markets do matter.

Well run franchises matter more, but markets still matter and will continue to matter.
DMAVS41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:23 PM   #13
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffen
i think players have far too much control and the team that drafts a player should have their rights for as long as they're willing to extend them


whatever amount they're eligible for as long as the team matches it they keep that player


if they get upset and demand a trade the team has the right to keep paying them and basically sitting them for as long as they want. or the player can quit the nba/forfeit his contract and go to a different league to play basketball



And that is how you get Curt Flood and Oscar Robertson trying to take you to the supreme court.

You should watch the NBA players testify to congress about it. There are some videos from the 70s showing how it worked out. The had some guys from the Hawks explaining the problems of your system. It was found to be an antitrust violation limiting competition. The law literally would not allow the NBA to merge with the ABA because it removed the only option players had to force competition. The lesser leagues were not deemed viable enough to avoid the conflict. It was pretty much deemed an anti competitive merger and blocked for 6 years.

The reserve clause will never be back in any major American sport. I think the MLS has it right now but they will beat it too. Those days are over.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:27 PM   #14
DMAVS41
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
DMAVS41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,767
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

The players do not have too much control.

Restricted free agency is team friendly and you basically get 5 years for sure out of a player...and most likely 7 total at least.

If you can't build a solid team or relationship around a player in 5 to 7 years...you don't deserve to keep them.

The Pelicans did a shit job overall by rushing the process (although they made some solid moves the last couple years) and the Cavs with Lebron probably couldn't have done worse during his first 7 years.

Teams have enough control....either do something to keep them or be prepared to lose them or trade them....and that is how it should be.
DMAVS41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2019, 01:28 PM   #15
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 20,531
Default Re: What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Simmons 25
If you're literally willing to leave half of your salary on the table, then you shouldn't be forced to play in that situation anyways. Just my opinion.


You get a lot of emotion involved when guys are trying to get home. Melo and Baron for example. Kareem too in the 70s. He originally wanted to go home to NY because of the much larger muslim population.

Its one reason the Raptors better hope they make a great playoff run. Leonard has two teams in his home area going all out for him.

If I had 100+ million already and I can play at home for 150 million more or elsewhere for 180? Eh....
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:


Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 PM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

NBA Basketball

NBA Rumors

Basketball Blog

NBA Videos

Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy