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Old 12-16-2018, 03:19 PM   #61
And1AllDay
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian guy
Come on . He doesn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

3ball is just scared sh!tless of LeBron and will literally say anything to deal with his insecurity and get a rise out of people.

He's best left ignored.

3ball brings up some good points but the thing is he posts like 50 points and 2 are good. Even a broken clock is right twice a day right?

At least I am proud of him for trying as he sees Jordans legacy shrinking right before his eyes becos of LeBRONZO Jame
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #62
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
That argument didn't work for mj when he was making his case for goat in 1989

Yes it did.

The "bad boys", simply put, were better than the Bulls.

Pull up that quote you LOVE with Laimbeer and Isiah talking about Chicago You know (?) the one claiming they weren't worried about anyone besides Jordan.

At that time, MJ was a one-man show. Especially in 89. Saying otherwise is you being deceitful again.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:45 PM   #63
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:

no current Lakers player outside of Lebron even close to as good as Pippen...


2nd year Kuzma and Ingram easily better than 2nd year Pippen:

League rank for 2nd year Kuzma and Pippen:

KUZMA PPG:. 48th
PIPPEN PPG:. 76th


League rank for 2nd year Ingram and Pippen:

INGRAM PPG:. 58th
PIPPEN PPG:. 78th

INGRAM APG:. 63rd
PIPPEN APG:. 68th

Since MJ nearly beat a dynasty with 2nd year pippen, he would obviously win with 2 guys that are AHEAD of 2nd year pippen, plus elite rim protection and 2 elite playmakers (ball, rondo)..

it's clear as day but you're a mainstream thinker that avoids truth


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41

I don't think you understand just how delusional you are.

Pippen / Grant, for example, were more valuable than this whole roster just by themselves.

You should hear yourself

Pippen and an 12/9 play-finisher aren't more important than 2 guys that both score better, 2 elite rim protectors, the nba's #4 assist man from last year, and future star / unique talent Lonzo.. heck, lonzo could turn out to be a pippen-type defender, and Ingram too

Chandler alone turned this Laker team from bad defensively to top 10..

Btw, the rim protection Chandler and McGee provide is more defensive help than mj ever had.. again, Cartwright averaged 0.4 blocks, compared to 1.5 for Shaq in 2010.. 1.5 - 2.0 for zydrunas.. 1.5 for mozgov.. and now Chandler/McGee.. so lebron has always had more defensive help, even without considering wade/varejao's all-nba defense


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS

There is nobody on this team remotely as capable or consistent as him.


Calling pippen "consistent" means you never watched him

He was the exact opposite of consistent and was bad in most of the big series of his career:

1988 PLAYOFFS:. 10.0 on 46.5%
1989 PLAYOFFS:. 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF. vs. DET:. 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:. 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:. 21.7 on 40.5% (worst-ever 1st option w/ goat choke)

1996 ECSF vs NYN:. 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:. 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:. 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF. vs. MIA:. 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECFS vsN IND:. 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:. 15.7 on 41.0%

Consistency personified!!!..



Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41

Also, if this team is that good...why the **** are they not in the top 15 on offense?

Are you serious?

Lebron had goat on-paper talent, but never anywhere near a goat offense, so his offenses have always underachieved

So the answer is Lebron-ball.. What else would it be?..

His team assist-reducing / attacker-for-spot-up shooter, 2-pg approach has ALWAYS underachieved offensively
.

Last edited by 3ball : 12-16-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #64
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
MJ would quickly be the favorite with this team

If young pippen was enough for mj to get the 3 seed and take a dynasty 6 games, then mj would be the 1 seed and favorite with this Laker cast (2 teammates that are ahead of young pippen, plus the nba's #4 assist man from last year, elite rim protection and lonzo)
.
He still didn't win, why should LeBron if the Lakers don't even get 50 wins?
They're overachieving right now, but it won't be like this forever.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:50 PM   #65
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
He still didn't win, why should LeBron if the Lakers don't even get 50 wins?
They're overachieving right now, but it won't be like this forever.
2nd year Kuzma and Ingram easily better than 2nd year Pippen:

League rank for 2nd year Kuzma and Pippen:

KUZMA PPG:. 48th
PIPPEN PPG:. 76th


League rank for 2nd year Ingram and Pippen:

INGRAM PPG:. 58th
PIPPEN PPG:. 78th

INGRAM APG:. 63rd
PIPPEN APG:. 68th

Since MJ nearly beat a dynasty with 2nd year pippen, he would obviously win with 2 guys that are AHEAD of 2nd year pippen, plus elite rim protection and 2 elite playmakers (ball, rondo)..
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

3ball...

Lebron hasn't had an offense outside of the top 8 since the 09 season iirc. If this team was so great around him like you claim, they wouldn't be struggling this much offensively...and certainly wouldn't be crumbling to the tune of 8 points per 100 without Lebron

I'm talking about Pippen / Grant on the title winning teams. Why would you bring up what they were before they got good enough to win with? That makes no sense as Jordan lost with those versions...

Actually, you didn't watch Pippen if you are going to post his raw offensive stats like they are indicative of his value as a player. He was consistent because he was playing historic defense virtually every game once he got into his prime...something nobody on the Lakers remotely touches.

You talk of objectivity and facts...again I invite you to read the most comprehensively factual / objective breakdown of players I've seen.

http://www.backpicks.com/2018/01/29/...cottie-pippen/

Pippen ranked 23rd all-time...higher than I'd put him actually. Again, give me the evidence...show me why the players on the Lakers should be favorably compared to a player worthy of being put in the top 25 of all time by objective standards.

You won't and you can't...

So you are expecting Lebron to do something Jordan couldn't? And beat a better team than Jordan lost to?

And your conclusion is that Lebron isn't a top 15 player of all time?

See how confused we all are to your position?


Last edited by DMAVS41 : 12-16-2018 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
2nd year Kuzma and Ingram easily better than 2nd year Pippen:

League rank for 2nd year Kuzma and Pippen:

KUZMA PPG:. 48th
PIPPEN PPG:. 76th


League rank for 2nd year Ingram and Pippen:

INGRAM PPG:. 58th
PIPPEN PPG:. 78th

INGRAM APG:. 63rd
PIPPEN APG:. 68th

Since MJ nearly beat a dynasty with 2nd year pippen, he would obviously win with 2 guys that are AHEAD of 2nd year pippen, plus elite rim protection and 2 elite playmakers (ball, rondo)..
I don't care about any pippen-kuzma comparison, an under 50W is what it is, a sign of a not that great team.
Comparing two teams based on two players, c'mon...
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #68
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

You gotta stop this 3ball. This is a popular Skip Bayless move. You overestimate what LeBron should do prior to it happening, so when he falls short, he's overrated and you'll have a new standard to argue against, even though you created the standard/rate yourself. And you overestimate so that he can never exceed your expectations to ensure he's never better than your current ranking of him. It's a played out move that Stephen A called him out for several times. This team isn't a championship caliber team, yeah they have “future stars” but this isn’t the future.
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Old 12-16-2018, 04:34 PM   #69
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41

show me why the players on the Lakers should be favorably compared to a tip 25 player like pippen

Prime pippen by himself doesn't overcome the entire Lakers roster (a 3rd scorer, elite rim protection, 2 elite playmaking PG's, and a deeper bench.. i.e elite playmaker and rim protection off the bench).

That's a lot.. that's most aspects of the game - scoring, defense, playmaking, depth

Heck, the Lakers already have 2 guys that are equal at scoring to championship Pippen - kuzma's current scoring rank (42nd) is ahead of 91' pippen's (43rd), and Ingram is simply being muffled by Lebron, as the on-off stats show..

This superior scoring help plus the aforementioned play-making help, rim protection and bench easily put the Lakers over MJ's casts


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS

So you are expecting Lebron to do something Jordan couldn't? And beat a better team than Jordan lost to?

Again, this Laker roster is much better than the bulls in 1989 with 2nd year pippen

MJ nearly beat a dynasty with 2nd year pippen, so he would obviously win with 2 guys that are AHEAD of 2nd year pippen, plus elite rim protection, 2 elite playmakers (ball, rondo), and better bench

It's not rocket science.. that's A LOT more talent than MJ's bulls had.. don't play dumb on this one

And yes, it's more on-paper talent than the prime bulls casts, who never had rim protection, let alone elite rim protection, and never had a 3rd scorer or 2 elite playmaking teammates (rondo, ball)... Or a deep bench... again, that's A LOT


Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS

And your conclusion is that Lebron isn't a top 15 player of all time?

Okay, I'll come at it a different way

The playoff cut last year was 43 games, and the Lakers won 35.. given the sharp upward trajectory of their young core, they likely would've won 43 games this year and made the playoffs

So why shouldn't lebron lead a playoff team to a ring, especially since its Lebron, rondo and elite rim protection being added, not just lebron?

And I think lebron is borderline top 10 but could be argued much lower depending on how you view his method of winning rings (team-hopping onto the league favorite)
.

Last edited by 3ball : 12-16-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:35 PM   #70
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
This isn't an opinion thread - the thread title states the historical record

And I'd reference anyone to the thread below, when I predicted the Lakers' talent should result in a championship - literally 3 future stars with sophisticated, high-level skill (kuzma, ball, ingram) each standing between 6'6" - 6'9", along with elite veteran playmakers, rim protection, and shooters..

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=454932


Seriously, what more could possibly be needed





TRYING HARD TO HURT LEBRON

This team is garbage without LEBRON.. Do they have some nice pieces? YES.. But I cant think of any player that you could replace with Lebron that would win the title this year..



Funny thing is that I still believe MJ is the GOAT..
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Old 12-16-2018, 05:46 PM   #71
Ne 1
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Red face Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

The Lakers are going to have to go through the already established dynasty Warriors whom of which will have 5 all stars in the line up come January! Not to mention you have other teams with stong benches and multiple established Allstars/superstars such as OKC with Paul George and Westbrook and you have to go through Houston as well whom of which may be struggling but when they’re clicking they can shoot the ball as well as the Warriors! As good as the Lakers have been looking, Lonzo is still very inconsistent and Ingram can't stay healthy and imo isn't the best option to be second option on the team! This team is still very young and the core has never made the playoffs before and you expect Lebron to pull a ring off with that?
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Old 12-16-2018, 06:25 PM   #72
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
Prime pippen by himself doesn't overcome the entire Lakers roster (a 3rd scorer, elite rim protection, 2 elite playmaking PG's, and a deeper bench.. i.e elite playmaker and rim protection off the bench).

That's a lot.. that's most aspects of the game - scoring, defense, playmaking, depth

Heck, the Lakers already have 2 guys that are equal at scoring to championship Pippen - kuzma's current scoring rank (42nd) is ahead of 91' pippen's (43rd), and Ingram is simply being muffled by Lebron, as the on-off stats show..

This superior scoring help plus the aforementioned play-making help, rim protection and bench easily put the Lakers over MJ's casts



Again, this Laker roster is much better than the bulls in 1989 with 2nd year pippen

MJ nearly beat a dynasty with 2nd year pippen, so he would obviously win with 2 guys that are AHEAD of 2nd year pippen, plus elite rim protection, 2 elite playmakers (ball, rondo), and better bench

It's not rocket science.. that's A LOT more talent than MJ's bulls had.. don't play dumb on this one

And yes, it's more on-paper talent than the prime bulls casts, who never had rim protection, let alone elite rim protection, and never had a 3rd scorer or 2 elite playmaking teammates (rondo, ball)... Or a deep bench... again, that's A LOT



Okay, I'll come at it a different way

The playoff cut last year was 43 games, and the Lakers won 35.. given the sharp upward trajectory of their young core, they likely would've won 43 games this year and made the playoffs

So why shouldn't lebron lead a playoff team to a ring, especially since its Lebron, rondo and elite rim protection being added, not just lebron?

And I think lebron is borderline top 10 but could be argued much lower depending on how you view his method of winning rings (team-hopping onto the league favorite)
.

Last response...

You are jumping back and forth between 2nd year Pippen and then prime Pippen and then 89 Bulls and championship level Bulls. You do this because you can't keep your arguments straight.

I'm talking about prime Pippen and Grant. Them alone are far more valuable than the rest of the Lakers roster. Again, this is relevant because that is what Jordan won with...he didn't win with the 89 Bulls.

Pippen wouldn't be alone...the fact that you think the rest of the Bulls championship teams were "just Pippen" is astounding...

The Lakers also lost two good players in Randle / Lopez...there is absolutely no evidence this current group of young players minus Lebron is anything more than a 30 win team.

Why shouldn't Lebron win a ring? Because he joined a team in which many of the key players haven't even played a playoff game before...and happens to be likely playing against one of the GOAT teams in NBA history.

There is no player, not even Jordan, that would be expected to win a ring this year against this level of competition unless many star level players on elite teams got injured.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

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Old 12-16-2018, 06:44 PM   #73
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Default Re: Anything less than a ring with lakers' talent level is below the goat standard

Pippen, Grant, and BJ Armstrong were all-stars in 94 during Jordan’s retirement.
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