Who is your top 5 biggest chokers among the All-Time Greats?

[1987_Lakers]

1. Karl Malone (The mail man never delivered when it mattered the most)

2. Elvin Hayes (In the '78 Finals against Seattle, Hayes scored 133 points in the first six games, but only 19 of those came in the fourth quarter, a statistic that became the key subplot of that Finals. In Game 7 in Seattle, Hayes scored just 12 points and fouled out with eight minutes remaining.)

3. LeBron James (For Now. His performance last year in the Finals is inexcusable)

4. Wilt Chamberlain (I beg you jlauber don't spam my thread with your long essays.)

5. David Robinson (His mid 90's teams usually dominated the season then underachieved in the postseason, his numbers dropped too.)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron has to be #1 right now. You kidding me?



He scored 0 clutch points (under 5 min, within 5 pts) in the 2011 Finals. ZERO points on 0-7 FG.

[jlauber]

1. Karl Malone (The mail man never delivered when it mattered the most)

2. Elvin Hayes (In the '78 Finals against Seattle, Hayes scored 133 points in the first six games, but only 19 of those came in the fourth quarter, a statistic that became the key subplot of that Finals. In Game 7 in Seattle, Hayes scored just 12 points and fouled out with eight minutes remaining.)

3. LeBron James (For Now. His performance last year in the Finals is inexcusable)

4. Wilt Chamberlain (I beg you jlauber don't spam my thread with your long essays.)

5. David Robinson (His mid 90's teams usually dominated the season then underachieved in the postseason, his numbers dropped too.)

One of the most INACCURATE, if not THE most INACCURATE comment EVER posted on this forum.

Please, PROVE to me how Wilt "choked." And be prepared to show how his OPPOSING CENTERS fared against him in those "choke jobs."

If anything LARRY BIRD and KAREEM "choked" FAR more often than Wilt ever did.

[Bandito]

Lebron might be the biggest of all judging by last year finals alone.

[Deuce Bigalow]

4. Wilt Chamberlain (I beg you jlauber don't spam my thread with your long essays.)

I agree. Monumental choke artist.

[Scholar]

1. Karl Malone (The mail man never delivered when it mattered the most)

Getting beaten by an MJ-led Bulls squad in the NBA Finals doesn't automatically translate to "never delivered when it mattered the most."

[jlauber]

Here is the CONDENSED version of Wilt in the post-season...

The idiotic Bill Simmons claims that Wilt "shrunk" in the post-season, particularly in BIG games.

Had he actually done any real research into Wilt's post-season career, he would have found that Wilt averaged 27.0 ppg in his 35 "must-win" and/or clinching games. Meanwhile, his starting opposing centers averaged 14.5 ppg in those 35 games. He also outscored his opposing starting center in 29 of those 35 games, including a 19-0 edge in his first 19 games of those 35. Furthermore, in his 13 games which came in his "scoring" seasons (from 59-60 thru 65-66), Chamberlain averaged 37.3 ppg in those "do-or-die" or clinching games. And there were MANY games in which he just CRUSHED his opposing centers in those games (e.g. he outscored Kerr in one them, 53-7.)

Wilt had THREE of his four 50+ point post-season games, in these "elimination games", including two in "at the limit" games, and another against Russell in a "must-win" game. He also had games of 46-34 and 45-27 (and only 4 months removed from major knee surgery) in these types of games. In addition he had games of 39 and 38 in clinching wins.

In the known 19 games in which we have both Wilt's, and his starting opposing center's rebounding numbers, Chamberlain outrebounded them in 15 of them, and by an average margin of 26.1 rpg to 18.9 rpg. And, had we had all 35 of the totals, it would have been by a considerably larger margin. A conservative estimate would put Wilt with at least a 30-5 overall edge in those 35 games. He also had games, even against the likes of Russell, and in "must-win" situations, where he just MURDERED his opposing centers (e.g. he had one clinching game, against Russell, in which he outrebounded him by a 36-21 margin.)

And finally, in the known FG% games in which we have, Chamberlain not only shot an eye-popping .582 in those "do-or-die" games, but he held his opposing centers to a combined .413 FG%. [COLOR="DarkRed"]BTW, he played against Kareem in two "clinching" games, and held Abdul-Jabbar to a combined .383 shooting in those two games, while shooting .545 himself (Wilt shot 18-33 in those two games, while Kareem shot a miserable 23-60[/COLOR].)

The bottom line, in the known games of the 35 that Wilt played in that involved a "must-win" or clincher, [COLOR="DarkRed"]Wilt averaged 27 ppg, 26.1 rpg, and shot .582[/COLOR] (and the 27 ppg figure was known for all 35 of those games.)

And once again, Chamberlain played in 11 games which went to the series limit (nine game seven's, one game five of a best-of-five series, and one game three of a best-of-three series), and all he did was average 29.9 ppg ([COLOR="DarkRed"]outscoring his opposing center by a 29.9 ppg to 9.8 ppg margin in the process), with 26.7 rpg, and on .581 shooting[/COLOR]. Or he was an eye-lash away from averaging a 30-27 game, and on nearly .600 shooting, in those 11 "at the limit" games.


Oh, and BTW, Chamberlain's TEAMs went 24-11 in those 35 games, too.

That was the same player that Simmons basically labeled a "loser", and a "choker", and who "shrunk" in his BIG games.

[Deuce Bigalow]

One of the most INACCURATE, if not THE most INACCURATE comment EVER posted on this forum.

Please, PROVE to me how Wilt "choked." And be prepared to show how his OPPOSING CENTERS fared against him in those "choke jobs."

If anything LARRY BIRD and KAREEM "choked" FAR more often than Wilt ever did.

His coach in game 7 of the NBA Finals sat him out in the final 5 minutes
Don't you want the "most dominant" player in the game?
No great gets benched in the final 5 minutes of a game 7 none the less a finals game except Wilt. He wilted in the clutch, and his coach knew it.

[jlauber]

Here again, I could post CHOKE JOB AFTER CHOKE JOB by BIRD and KAREEM, too.

BOTH were FAR greater CHOKE ARTISTS than Chamberlain EVER was.

[jlauber]

His coach in game 7 of the NBA Finals sat him out in the final 5 minutes
Don't you want the "most dominant" player in the game?
No great gets benched in the final 5 minutes of a game 7 none the less a finals game except Wilt. He wilted in the clutch, and his coach knew it.

Oh and BTW, his COACH was IMMEDIATELY FIRED after that coaching debacle, too.

[MichaelCheazley]

Here again, I could post CHOKE JOB AFTER CHOKE JOB by BIRD and KAREEM, too.

BOTH were FAR greater CHOKE ARTISTS than Chamberlain EVER was.

Yet they both have more championships. Just goes to show how much better they are. They can choke so much yet are able to win much more than the legendary wilt. Doing so without a 50' vertical, olympic level track speed and endurance and also the fighting ability that surpasses anyone alive at the time. And he also was able to lift a shit lot of weights and bang a shit lot of broads(THERE WERE ACTUAL EYE WITNESSES!). Yet with all those attributes all he has accomplished are meaningless trivial stats, of which are the only cure to your biggest rival around, not millwad, erectile dysfunction. Gtfo delusional homer.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Here again, I could post CHOKE JOB AFTER CHOKE JOB by BIRD and KAREEM, too.

BOTH were FAR greater CHOKE ARTISTS than Chamberlain EVER was.

Take your pills old man, take your pills.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yet they both have more championships. Just goes to show how much better they are. They can choke so much yet are able to win much more than the legendary wilt.

And shot better than 40% from the freethrow line
And had a winning record in the Finals
And their coaches never benched them in the last 5 minutes of a Playoff game

[jlauber]

Yet they both have more championships. Just goes to show how much better they are. They can choke so much yet are able to win much more than the legendary wilt.

Had Wilt had the good fortune to be paired with MAGIC for 10 seasons, I suspect that he would have EASILY surpassed BOTH in career rings.

[MichaelCheazley]

Had Wilt had the good fortune to be paired with MAGIC for 10 seasons, I suspect that he would have EASILY surpassed BOTH in career rings.

As previously stated :

Yet they both have more championships. Just goes to show how much better they are. They can choke so much yet are able to win much more than the legendary wilt. Doing so without a 50' vertical, olympic level track speed and endurance and also the fighting ability that surpasses anyone alive at the time. And he also was able to lift a shit lot of weights and bang a shit lot of broads(THERE WERE ACTUAL EYE WITNESSES!). Yet with all those attributes all he has accomplished are meaningless trivial stats, of which are the only cure to your biggest rival around, not millwad, erectile dysfunction. Gtfo delusional homer.