I was watching Shaq ravage the 76ers in the 2001 finals and it forces me to ask.....

[get these NETS]

OP

in an effort to promote Shaq

NBA refs swallowed their whistles for about 3 years straight and Shaq was allowed to lower shoulder and elbow into stationary defender

in fact he FAMOUSLY elbowed stationary Mutombo in the mouth in that sixers lakers finals and ...you guessed it NO whistle


shitt was a joke


Shaq is league manufactured superstar....

[Kblaze8855]

I knew it. I know guard hatred when I see it. I had a bit of it and I was just an undersized 4 who couldnt shoot.

[G-train]

The league is definitely is more athletic as a whole.

People need to try being too smart for their own good, you are completely naive if you think otherwise.

Sure 20, 30, 40 years ago there was a % of good athletes. Now 95% are freak athletes.

[Kblaze8855]

OP

in an effort to promote Shaq

NBA refs swallowed their whistles for about 3 years straight and Shaq was allowed to lower shoulder and elbow into stationary defender

in fact he FAMOUSLY elbowed stationary Mutombo in the mouth in that sixers lakers finals and ...you guessed it NO whistle


shitt was a joke


Shaq is league manufactured superstar....

Shaq was the NBA player of the week...his first week in the NBA. They must have started early.

[IllegalD]

I didnt say all. I said id have to consider...11. Over Jordan id have to consider.....6. Im not saying id take 6. Or that id take 11 over Lebron/Kobe.

Im saying there are people id have to take into consideration. Some of them not near any of those 3 on an all time list.

Fair enough, Blaze.

Out of curiosity who are the 11 you'd consider over LeBron/Kobe. Who are the 6 over Mike?

Here's a Bob Costas interview with Phil Jackson in which Costas asks a similar question to what you're proposing, and Phil's answer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO8B3...ailpage#t=217s

The major difference that Phil notes between MJ (perimter) and Shaq (bigman), is that Shaq needs someone to get him the ball vs MJ who can take it himself the full 90 feet and create something for himself/others.

So while its true that most of the all-time great perimeter players who won chips needed all-star bigman to do so, the same could be said of the reverse: all the big-men that have won also had all-star guards to get them the ball. Russell had Cousy, Shaq had Kobe/Wade/Penny, Kareem had Magic/Oscar, Wilt had Goodrich/West, Duncan had Parker/Ginobili, etc, etc.

[Kblaze8855]

95% freaks? I dont believe you thought that out too well. I say that even knowing it was hyperbole.

[Orlando Magic]

I knew it. I know guard hatred when I see it. I had a bit of it and I was just an undersized 4 who couldnt shoot.

[get these NETS]

Shaq was the NBA player of the week...his first week in the NBA. They must have started early.

was waiting for you to dispute that he threw elbow in mutombo's face in finals to NO whistle


but how can anybody dispute that?

[TonyMontana]

Ok, what about Shaq matched up with a 6'10 mobile guy you can shoot that he has to defend down the other end on pick and rolls off horns and diving to corners and the basket.... and while posting up he has 2 guys hanging around the basket clogging the lane, and then on his pass out of the double team, elite athletes are rotating the ass out of everything and forcing role players to make 19 foot J's.

I'll have Lebron.

Sigh

Another kid that thinks Shaq is the guy he was on Cleveland and Boston. Please watch the video OP included.

Shaq COULD defend guys outside when he was younger and his LENGTH, STRENGTH, ATHLETISICM made it a nightmare for guys to score. The ONLY way you could beat him was to hope the refs called him for a touch foul because Shaq simply touching guys made them tremble. Monstrous strength.

Shaq could literally back a guy down with one dribble and then just dunk it in over his head. His size, strength, and wingspan let him do this. And he made this move quick. Chances are your help is going to be extremely late and it results in an And1 dunk. If you decide to help before he even gets the ball enjoy having wide open shooters.

Only one that can stop Shaq is refs who give him bogus fouls just because he is so big and strong.

Bron Brons halfcourt offense doesn't even compare to Shaqs.

[G-train]

The Pacers almost beat the Heat with Roy Hibbert as their big, non-mobile post threat. Think if they had Shaq instead of Hibbert. It would have been a massacre.

That's a pretty uncomplicated way of looking at it.

Miami played to make Hibbert (a generally average offensive player) beat them.
He got 20/10 with the Heat basically allowing it, not just in that series, but as a roster as a whole, by design for overall success.
I'm not talking about just Miami with my posts.
If Shaq played for a different team right now, Miami would have a different roster possibly, or possibly would have employed different schemes than what they employed against Indiana.
But Shaq, Hakeem and D-Rob don't play.. It's a different league now. Which is my overall point.

[G-train]

95% freaks? I dont believe you thought that out too well. I say that even knowing it was hyperbole.

Ah, if you are 6'6 plus and can run and jump like these NBA players, in what could be the the most athletic competition in the world, competing and often beating guys like Lebron who might be the best overall athlete ever, then yes they are freaks.

[G-train]

Sigh

Another kid that thinks Shaq is the guy he was on Cleveland and Boston. Please watch the video OP included.

Shaq COULD defend guys outside when he was younger and his LENGTH, STRENGTH, ATHLETISICM made it a nightmare for guys to score. The ONLY way you could beat him was to hope the refs called him for a touch foul because Shaq simply touching guys made them tremble. Monstrous strength.

Shaq could literally back a guy down with one dribble and then just dunk it in over his head. His size, strength, and wingspan let him do this. And he made this move quick. Chances are your help is going to be extremely late and it results in an And1 dunk. If you decide to help before he even gets the ball enjoy having wide open shooters.

Only one that can stop Shaq is refs who give him bogus fouls just because he is so big and strong.

Bron Brons halfcourt offense doesn't even compare to Shaqs.

This is a spectacular noob post. Something a 5th grader would write.
I watched Shaq's career in detail. This is like reading about a super hero, something a casual fan would think Shaq was.

[TonyMontana]

To people saying "everyone is an athlete now"

Just watch this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgqoFTh2lZg

And no, actually watch the video dont just skip over it. Tell me how many guys in the league can do this shit right now. *** it, tell me how many guys in league HISTORY can do this shit.

Shaq is the top athletic specimen in NBA History, when you look at his height, wingspan, strength, athleticism, footwork all combined into one.

[Asukal]

cmon man...

People have been saying that "League is much more athletic now" shit every 5 years for 40 years. Really. Ive heard John Havlicek say it of like...1972.

If the NBA were getting much more athletic at the rate that shit has been said...and it happened since 2001...guys would be superman by now.

The league will NEVER be much more athletic than it was in 2001. Not until huimans evolve. Those claims bother me about the 80s.

We are doing it for 2001 now?

It has to stop. even if the league is creeping along getting more athletic...it sure as hell has not just jumped up "much more" in 10 years.

Young idiots of today think athletes from 10+ years ago are slow and unathletic. Today the ring is still 10 feet from the ground and players from 50 years ago could dunk the ball at the same ring height...

"Bigger stronger faster" argument is stupid and ignorant. No explanation needed.

If athletes today are so much bigger, stronger, and faster than athletes from a few decades ago, then the ancient times must have had ant-size people for the olympics.

[Jacks3]

another useless thread.

everyone knows that two-way bigs are the single most valuable "type" of player you can have. the problem is that many of the guys you listed aren't really two-way so taking them over a prime kobe or lebron would just be dumb.

ewing was never anywhere near being a great offensive player. dirk is average defensively. moses was never a defensive anchor. robinson had major holes in his offensive game that got exposed almost every post-season of his prime. barkley is horrible defensively. karl wasn't a true anchor and was overrated offensively. webber? gilmore? lol c'mon now.

you'd have to be a dumass to take any of these guys over a lebron or even kobe.

now guys like KG/Shaq/Russ/Wilt/Hakeem/Kareem/Duncan are true "two-way" bigs and id definitely take them over a superstar perimeter player in most cases. and all of them are considered top 10-15 all-time and higher than kobe or lebron on many lists.

and of course smalls have their own inherent advantages:

they don't need the the ball delivered to them.
they'll always be superior options in the clutch.
far better creation/play-making because they can see the court better, handle the ball, and aren't as affected by double-teams.
they can attack from different areas of the court. thats why the best offensive players in history are all smalls(magic,oscar,jordan,nash,kobe,wade,lbj,west, etc) with the exception of shaq/kareem.



and everyone knows that "all-time lists" aren't the same thing as asking who would you rather start a franchise with.