Why Wilt Chamberlain would dominate in today's game ! Bruce Blitz

[Kblaze8855]

How many bigmen right now have strong back to the basket games and loads of moves? That isnt an era thing. Those guys arent common in any era. And look into willis reed. Black and white footage 60s reed. He was operating in the post. Clean quick decisive moves. Up and unders. Hooks. He was nice. And of the guys less known as scorers many had more offensive talent than credited with. Nate thurmond had a wet jumper that ive seen. Ive seen lucas and dave d making outside shots. Bigmen have not really expanded skills wise since inaccurate sweeping hooks stopped being the norm.

You are very right about foul trouble and better help in the post. But for the most part i seen no real differences. Most of todays best centers arent terribly musclebound either. Thedays of zo and drob or willis types are gone. Noah? Horford? Bynum? Even bogut is that kina 60s farmer strong. Not just built.

I dont see the old guys having trouble at all.

[Fatstogie]

How many bigmen right now have strong back to the basket games and loads of moves? That isnt an era thing. Those guys arent common in any era. And look into willis reed. Black and white footage 60s reed. He was operating in the post. Clean quick decisive moves. Up and unders. Hooks. He was nice. And of the guys less known as scorers many had more offensive talent than credited with. Nate thurmond had a wet jumper that ive seen. Ive seen lucas and dave d making outside shots. Bigmen have not really expanded skills wise since inaccurate sweeping hooks stopped being the norm.

You are very right about foul trouble and better help in the post. But for the most part i seen no real differences. Most of todays best centers arent terribly musclebound either. Thedays of zo and drob or willis types are gone. Noah? Horford? Bynum? Even bogut is that kina 60s farmer strong. Not just built.

I dont see the old guys having trouble at all.

Again.

The point is the league has changed. Do you wanna watch wilt post up? Or lebron tomahawk?

The game changed on its own. Look at dwight. They do pretty good, best defense. But they have no real scorers on their own.

Dwight is the star. But then he demands the ball. And they can go to the post with him and he can shoot 60%. But at the loss of rythm of everyone else.

Everyone else passes the ball to get open shots. where as everyone else gets bored watching a guy post up over and over.

Both players and fans. So thats why the magic wont do good. Watch next time yous ee the magic. How people get frustrated knowing they have to pass to dwight in the post.

It disrupts teh flow of the other 4 players. Post isolation is boring to watch.

But the fact is only dwight gets off. Watch games where dwight goes off, they usually lose cause everyone else plays like crap. Because dwight is posting up too much.
They single cover and just let him score. Everyone else will start missing cause they are getting sad watching it. lol

Its efficient means in PPM. and FG%. But it lowers the team psychology.

Back in the day? People would watch wilt post up.

Today? No one would even play with him like that.

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLe-...eature=related

Wilt in his Prime.

[Kblaze8855]

So your points are they arent conditioned, they cant play defense, and post play is boring?

You know there are nba players who live off candy and junk food right? Guys like Keon Clark who drank a bottle of gin before every game? You think Eddy Curry, Bogut, Boris Diaw, Baron Davis, and so on are on really strict diets? And conditioning?

The reasons guys then had such insane numbers is how many posessions they had each game. You think it takes less energy to play 220 posessions than 160? And guys like Wilt, Russell, Hayes, and so on might play 45+ minutes a night. Just dragging up and down the court and extra 30+ times would wear out a lot of players now. Especially the bigger ones. You had guys like Wilt who were top flight quarter mile guys and Russell who was the worlds 7th rated high jumper and guys like Reed who lived on a farm for 20 years in Louisiana used to working all day. And they did it in shoes with no padding, drinking water not G series gatorade, and not having a trainer on the road and hottubs after every game. These guys might ride a bus 6 hours then get out take a nap and play a game in an arena with the heat not working as the 4th game of a back to back to back to back.

Being tough/conditioned is the last issue they would have in a league where players wake up in 5 star hotels, to buffets 3 times a day, with a full medical staff, compression shorts, under armor padding, drinks designed to keep them going and oxygen tanks on the bench(dont think thats just NFL).


As for D? that would translate better than anything else. In the 60s with no three point line a center was there first and foremost to disrupt offenses that setup 15 feet away. Hes gotta guard his own man one on one and still prevent drives and try to catch up on dribble handoffs and offenses run through passing bigmen on either side of the lane. And stars guarded eachother.

Let Nate Thurmond hand off the other teams star to someone else so he can just roam the paint freely or play one of the 20 centers not a threat to score or get to rest as much as centers do on teams that just shoot from outside and dont look to drive.

Defensive centers of the 60s would have it easier than ever with the exception of the slashing swingmen being such freaks. But when you are guarding one of the 19-22 centers that dont require much attention its easier to be ready than if Kareem is leaning back on you or Reed is ready to pop a jumper if you take your hand off him.


As for post play being boring....

Thats just a whole other thing. Asking if id rather watch a guy post up or Lebron dunk?

You know a great post scorer can do so at will right?

Some guard flying in for a dunk isnt something we can count on.

There is a reason that every bigtime bigman to come along goes #1 in the draft. And it isnt boredom.

[bdreason]

Wilt would be just fine today. He wouldn't be posting the same numbers, but his rebounding numbers would towards the top in the NBA, and I could see him averaging anywhere from 10-20ppg depending on the team he played for.

[D-Wade316]

Most centers now are perimeter players?

Most centers today lack post-up skills.

Wilt would be a 37ppg-18rpg-4apg-4bpg-60fg% player today

[jlauber]

There were several good posts on the topic, but KBlaze and Jlip basically covered what I would have.

Here we go again...

IMHO, Kareem's greatest season, including post-season play, came in his second year (70-71.) You can argue that he had a greater regular season the very next year, but his numbers dropped dramatically in that post-season. You can also argue that he was in his physical prime in, say '77, or so, but his numbers were not as great (although it may have been his greatest post-season...BUT, there were no Wilt's or Thurmond's to battle.)

In that 70-71 season, Kareem led the NBA in scoring, at 31.7 ppg (his second highest ever.) He also shot .577, which came in a league that shot .449. What is the significance of that? It was his greatest shooting season, in relation to league average, of his career. In addition, he averaged 16 rpg (his third best season of his career. In the post-season, he averaged 26.6 ppg, 17.0 rpg, and shot .515. Here again, those were not his best post-season numbers, but given the fact that he had them against Thurmond, Unseld...and Wilt...well, it was pretty damned good. And he not only won the regular season MVP, he also won the Finals MVP.

Now, it could also be argued that that '70-71 season was the WORST of Chamberlain's career. He was 34 years old, and only a year removed from major knee surgery. His numbers were among the worst of his career, too. He only averaged 20.7 ppg, and on .545 shooting. Great numbers for 95% of the players who have ever played the game...but very sub-par numbers for Wilt. And, he averaged 18.2 rpg, too, which was the WORST of his career. Even his overall playoff numbers were very poor for him. 18.3 ppg, a career LOW 20.2 rpg, and a playoff LOW of .455 shooting.

However, THAT Kareem faced THAT Wilt in TEN H2H games in that 70-71 season (five regular season, and five post-season.) Here were the combined numbers. Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 26-23, while Wilt outshot Kareem, combined, .490 to .454; and outrebounded Kareem, per game, 18-16.

Once again, that may not have been a PRIME Kareem, BUT, it was arguably his greatest season. And, FOR SURE, that was NOT a PRIME Chamberlain. In fact, it was Wilt at his WORST.

Now, think about this... in Kareem's 85-86 season, he was 38 years old, and a FAR cry from his PRIME (he could barely get 6 rpg.) YET, how about this... in one game against a 23 year old Patrick Ewing, he outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting him, 15-22 to 3-17. And only a few games apart from that massacre, he overwhelmed a helpless 23 year old Hakeem, outscoring him 46-18, and outshooting Hakeem, 21-30 to 8-16 (and in only 37 minutes BTW.) In fact, in that 85-86 season, and in five regular season H2H's, a WAY past his PRIME Kareem averaged 33 ppg on a mind-boggling .634 shooting against Hakeem.

Here again...THAT Kareem was near the end of his career. He could no longer jump, and he was much slower than a 70's Kareem. And yet, he just MURDERED both Ewing and Hakeem. What would a PRIME Kareem have dropped on those two helpless defenders?

Furthermore, what would a PRIME Wilt have dropped on Kareem in the 70's? He certainly dominated many of the same centers that Kareem faced, FAR more than Kareem did.

And, by extension, what would a PRIME Wilt have carpet-bombed Hakeem and Ewing with. A 7-2 Wilt (and easily 7-3 in shoes), weighing between 275-300 lbs; and with enormous strength; incredible leaping ability (hell, he was blocking 4-5 of Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hooks, per game, at age 35), and sprinter's speed (there were many that claimed he was the fastest player in the league in the 60's.) And a player who could hit routinely hit 15+ ft bank shots, 15 ft. jump shots, quick turn-around jumpers in the lane, sweeping hook shots, finger rolls...coming from a 7-8 wingspan, and thunderous dunks.


And, as Jlip alluded too...here was a Wilt, at nearly 37 years of age, LEADING the league in rebounding (and by bearly two per game); being voted first-team all-defense (and ahead of the likes of Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, and Kareem); and setting a FG% record of .727, that will never be broken. THEN, in the playoffs and covering 17 post-season games, he played 47.1 mpg, and averaged 22.5 rpg (in a league that averaged 50.6 rpg.) Just how impressive was that? That 22.5 rpg post-season average was the LAST time ANY NBA player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In fact, the next greatest season, since, was Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs. My god...in Wilt's very LAST game, all he did was score 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds, in game five of the Finals.

There is no way of ever knowing what numbers a PRIME Wilt would be capable of putting up in TODAY's NBA, but I am convinced he would do quite well. How many other 7-2 (7-3 in shoes), 300 lb, 7-8 wingspan, college high-jump champion, with sprinter's speed, and massive strength that no player could match in TODAY's NBA...are currently playing in the NBA?

[bwink23]

i remember reading an article of Isiah Thomas talking about when he first met Wilt.....he basically said he's seen and played against a lot of 7-footers, but Wilt just looked enormous compared to them.

[Round Mound]

Wilt would destroy todays league

The 2000s is the Worst Era Ever for Centers. The 90s which where inferior to the 80s also had better Center Competition

[Cangri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLe-...eature=related

Wilt in his Prime.

I just laught @ his "great post moves"

[knightfall88]

215lb for a center lol. Thats what a SG should weigh

[Pointguard]

Naw im saying they are more into their craft. Back then there wasnt so many guys who were playing basketball their entire life. The whole league was "hey your big, you should come play basketball." Where as now they draft a kid who has been training his entire life to be a professional athlete.

Im not saying these guys werent good. they did not devote their entire lives to the game as guys do today. They werent eating the same. Working otu the same. They didnt have the same conditioning.

The conditioning Wilt had was crazy. They played super fast ball back then and Wilt went after rebounds like crazy 24rpg, block shots like crazy while scoring 40ppg over 7 years. While playing as much as 4 back to backs with at least one coast to coast trip in there with at least a couple of 5 hour airport waits and staying in hotels with six foot beds?

Or as Kblaze said:
"The reasons guys then had such insane numbers is how many posessions they had each game. You think it takes less energy to play 220 posessions than 160? And guys like Wilt, Russell, Hayes, and so on might play 45+ minutes a night. Just dragging up and down the court and extra 30+ times would wear out a lot of players now. Especially the bigger ones. You had guys like Wilt who were top flight quarter mile guys and Russell who was the worlds 7th rated high jumper and guys like Reed who lived on a farm for 20 years in Louisiana used to working all day. And they did it in shoes with no padding, drinking water not G series gatorade, and not having a trainer on the road and hottubs after every game. These guys might ride a bus 6 hours then get out take a nap and play a game in an arena with the heat not working as the 4th game of a back to back to back to back."

I don't get you putting Wilt in this era and not granting him the conditioning, diet, pampering and training of this era, as well as playing when he was young? Wilt would have the advantage of hiring Akeem to work on his moves as well. They called the game hard on Wilt so you would also have to include him being able to double pivot, hop, drop step, shuffle, employ a power game, have practice time, unlimited access to gyms, standard and uniform balls, gyms with level floors, shooting coaches, video coaches, bigman camp, left hand and dribble development camp, nutritionist, and superstar calls. Wilt today would look a lot better than he did awhile then."

yea they had skill sure. But night in and night out? They couldnt hold up.

.Not quite. I mean basically sure. But your seeing a change. Dwight being just the prime example. These older bigmen. Yes they can score. Shooting is something someone can do or not. If htey can shoot sure they can shoot.

CAN THEY PLAY DEFENSE. no.

Wilt had incredible timing and endurance. Wilt would go after 20 blocks in a game. He could do that and still have crazy rebounding numbers. With today's training Wilt's jump would be even more combustible. You bring up Dwight but size and strength (Bynum and Yao) bothers him. Size, strength and athletism nevermind good timing, smarts and more energy.

[Math2]

No way. Old school players ar enot as strong Wilt is stronger than any NBA player...when he was in his 50s. NOt as fast. Russell and Chamberlain were track stars....they are definitely faster than Howard... Not as athletic. Russell could jump higher than anyone in the NBA today.Not as conditioned. That could be considered true...but present players wouldn't be as conditioned then either.Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated I'd say any center from any era to play in the 60s, wouldn't be in consideration for the best center in the league. No one would be better than Russell or chamberlain.. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.

Dwight howard would stuff wilt over and over and over and over and over again. Howard has no strength compared to Wilt.

That shit wouldnt even be a fun 1 on 1 to watch. I know, Howard would be crushed.


Your crazy. Stop being nostalgic. In 20 year swhen my generation is weaker, ill accept reality. Fact is wilt is not athletic enough.

Today there are 6' dudes whod rain points on oldschool dudes. They would destroy them.

at your whhole post.

[Legends66NBA7]

at your whhole post.

Yeah, no need to respond to him. He clearly is a prisoner of the moment fan and ignorance is bliss as well.

[La Frescobaldi]

Are you serious? You're joking with these posts right?

Here's a Chamberlain tomahawk in 1960.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHAJjP6e6pg

Here's a clip of the guy getting higher than anybody else I ever saw in a game, and I've been watching the NBA since the mid-60s. Thats vertical leap, not a running leap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

Here's a clip of Wilt jamming on a guy just about LeBron's size named Gus Johnson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEVzU6Qpu0

Here's a clip of Wilt blocking Kareem's skyhook twice in 5 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg

Here's a clip of Chamberlain highlights in a college game. Check his speed by counting steps on the fast break at 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc

Tell me when you see a center in today's league that can play defense like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaXHYlPECcc

Do guys on this board honestly believe crap like this?
**************************************
Originally Posted by Fatstogie
No way. Old school players ar enot as strong. NOt as fast. Not as athletic. Not as conditioned. Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.
**************************

That is just hilariously naive.

Chamberlain was bigger then, he'd be bigger now.

Competition?
Dwight Howard is same size as Willis Reed. NO WAY is Howard more skilled than Willis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqeJp7OoPys

Kareem always said Nate Thurmond was the best defender he ever played against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPYVp9f4Ag

Oh wait I forgot - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar retired before 1990, so he couldn't even make it to todays league.............................. wow