Efficiency of today's perimeter players versus 80's/90's players

[Roundball_Rock]

Given all the constant talk about which era it was easier to score it would be helpful to have the data on the efficiency of players from respective eras. This is not dispositive, there are a myriad of factors that could affect these results, but as a general proposition one would assume if a particular era is/was far easier to score in that would be reflected in substantially superior efficiency in that era.

To limit the distortive effect of the old age of the players from previous eras I will also list their efficiency when they played on the team they are most associated with, if a player played on multiple teams. I also excluded three pointers because they were not as common in the 80's and 90's as they are today, which influences negatively the raw FG % of today's players. By focusing on two pointers we can have an apples to apples comparison. Finally, this obviously will not include every perimeter player nor will it include scrubs or average players, partly because selecting some scrubs or average players for sampling purposes inevitably would inject subjectivity into this. With top players it is easier to do because there is a general consensus on who the top players were in each era. By getting a sample of the best perimeter players from each period we can get a good general idea of efficiency of perimeter players.

Two point efficiency of selected players

Jordan 51.0% (52.0% as a Bull)
Drexler 49.8% (both as a Blazer and as a Rocket)
Wilkins 47.8% (48.1% as a Hawk)
Bird 50.9%
King 52.1% (54.6% as a Knick)
Magic 54.1%
Pippen 50.7% (51.2% as a Bull)
Stockton 54.1%
K. Johnson 50.4% (50.5% as a Sun)
Mullin 53.3% (53.5% as a Warrior)
T. Hardaway 46.9% (48.8% as a Warrior, when he was 23-29 years old)
Miller 51.6%
Payton 50.1% (50.2% as a Supersonic)
Rice 47.6% (47.8% as a Hornet)
Price 50.1% (50.5% as a Cavalier)
Worthy 53.2%
Thomas 46.8%
English 50.8%
Moncrief 51.3%
Erving 51.0% (NBA only)
Dantley 54.1% (56.3% as a Jazz)
Gervin 51.4% (NBA only)

LeBron 53.6%
Kobe 48.1%
T Mac 46.1% (46.9% with Orlando)
Iverson 44.8% (44.4% as a Sixer)
Carter 46.3% (46.0% as a Raptor)
Allen 48.5% (47.6% as a Supersonic)
Kidd 42.9% (42.8% as a Net)
Nash 51.8% (53.5% as a Sun)
Pierce 47.8% (47.7% as a Celtic)
Marbury 46.5% (too many teams!)
Redd 47.5%
Arenas 45.8% (45.7% as a Wizard)
Billups 43.5% (43.9% as a Piston)
Paul 50.3%
D. Williams 48.6%
Ginobli 50.1%
Parker 51.3%
J. Johnson 47.2% (48.2% as a Hawk)
Rose 48.3% (48.1% in 11')
Westbrook 45.5%
Wade 51.2%
Harden 49.7%
Curry 49.3%
Thompson 45.9%
Lillard 47.0%
George 46.9%
Durant 51.2%

It turns out it was easier for 80's/90's players to score than 2000's/2010's players.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Most of these guys you plucked from the 80s and 90s were midrange demons. Like..they practiced taking long range 2's rather than 3's, emphasis on 3's as they're naturally a lower percentage shot (worth the extra point reward).

Not all, but many players today lack the in-between game. The differences in play between both eras is pretty noticeable.

[Roundball_Rock]

They also were getting to the rim more too and getting easy dunks and layups. So despite the supposed "tough" defenses and all the talk about mighty hand-checking the bottom line is they were putting the ball through the hoop at a much higher rate then players of the 2000-2015 period.

[3ball]

In the 80's and 90's, teams shot a MUCH higher proportion of two-pointers, so it's not a surprise that players from that era were much better them.

In 1985, 96.5% of all shot attempts were 2-pointers, compared to only 73% today - naturally, players from 1985 were a lot better at those shots than today's players.

Otoh, in today's era, it's all about 3-pointers.. So today's players are better at that.

If you look at all those names you listed Roundball, the previous era players have a blend of skill that leans towards power over finesse, whereas for today's players it's the other way around.. This is a direct result of the much higher proportion of 3-pointers taken in today's game and resulting spacing - finesse over power is required to take the most advantage of the spacing, while power over finesse is required to overcome the lack of spacing.

[TheMan]

Most of these guys you plucked from the 80s and 90s were midrange demons. Like..they practiced taking long range 2's rather than 3's, emphasis on 3's as they're naturally a lower percentage shot (worth the extra point reward).

Not all, but many players today lack the in-between game. The differences in play between both eras is pretty noticeable.

Pretty much...

Rules have been changed to help offensive players yet these guys believe it's way harder to score in today's game

[Roundball_Rock]

Good points on the proficiency of and greater focus on the mid-range game since three's were a non-factor in the 80's and a small factor in the 90's. What do you guys think the data would look for perimeter players the 70's and 60's? If the 1985-1995 period is the GOAT defensive period, as alleged, would it not follow that players in the 70's and 60's would have shot worse than those in that alleged golden age of defensive efficiency?

Rules have been changed to help offensive players yet these guys believe it's way harder to score in today's game

Why do you guys always leave the other part of that story out?

[TheMan]

They also were getting to the rim more too and getting easy dunks and layups. So despite the supposed "tough" defenses and all the talk about mighty hand-checking the bottom line is they were putting the ball through the hoop at a much higher rate then players of the 2000-2015 period.

Maybe they were just generally better offensive players

You gotta be a moron to think that it was easier to score if a defensive player can ride you with his forearm and there was a big sitting there in the paint waiting to challenge your shot.

There are quotes by NBA executives saying they made rules changes to favor the offense after NBA games were becoming 87-84 slugfests...


Like I said, you gotta be a really dense to think it's harder to score today than back then. And I'm talking about 90s basketball in general since I was too young in most of the 80s to be a knowledgeable fan

[Roundball_Rock]

Here is the data for a few all-NBA players from the 70's:

Gervin 51.4% (NBA only)
Johnson 52.1% (played mostly in the 80's, though)
Westphal 50.8% (52.0% as a Sun)
Dandridge 48.4% (48.7% as a Buck)
W. Davis 52.1% (52.8% as a Sun, played mostly in the 80's)
Thompson 50.6% (NBA only)
Maravich 44.1% (43.4% with the Jazz)
Erving 51.0% (NBA only)
White 44.4% (44.2% as a Celtic)
Barry 45.0% (NBA only)
Archibald 46.9%
Havlicek 43.9%
Frazier 49.0% (49.2% as a Knick)
Goodrich 45.6% (46.0% as a Laker)
West 47.4% (played mostly in the 60's)
Oscar 48.5% (48.9% as a Royal, played mostly in the 60's)

So once again it is the early 80's through early 90's period that featured unusually high efficiency. Why?

[Marchesk]

Does that mean the 50s was the best defensive era?

[Roundball_Rock]

There are quotes by NBA executives saying they made rules changes to favor the offense after NBA games were becoming 87-84 slugfests...

Exactly. The rule changes were made to aid offensive players after scoring had plummeted to the lowest levels since the 50's. Even with the changes scoring, which rose, is substantially lower than it was in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and the first half of the 90's. What some like to claim is that scoring today is unusually easier when in fact it is lower than any other era of the NBA, unless you count 1998-2004 as an era. What makes it even more interesting is this crowd usually cites the 1985-1995 period as the GOAT defensive era. That was the GOAT offensive efficiency era.

[3ball]

they were putting the ball through the hoop at a much higher rate then players of the 2000-2015 period.

You are forgetting that previous eras played at a faster pace, which means higher scoring per game - and the faster pace was because teams ran less offense in previous eras.. The only reason teams run offense in the first place is to get OPEN SHOTS - two-pointers don't need to be as open as 3-pointers, so they requires less offense to be ran.. The two-pointer basketball of previous eras simply plays faster.

It's intuitive - the further a shot is from the basket, the more it's FG% goes down when contested.. Many mid-range and paint shots are taken with a defender draped all over - this is standard for 2-pointers, but not 3-pointers.. 3-pointers need to be more open than 2-pointers and therefore require more offense to be ran, which slows the game down.. Indeed, throughout history, pace has steadily declined with the increase of 3-point shooting.

While 3-pointers provide the much-coveted spacing, this spacing takes time to set up by having to run offense every possession, which slows the game compared to previous eras.. In previous eras, the norm was for players to settle for a wide variety of quick and contested two-pointers, which is exactly what TODAY'S game would turn return to if the 3-point line were suddenly removed - pace would increase sharply right away.

[dubeta]

Damn, so Jordan was only about average in terms if efficiency in the 80's/90's?

LeBron shot 57% when others were shooting 45%, while Jordan shoots the same as other perimeter players


Jordan was an average scorer in his era

[Smoke117]

Kobrick has only ever shot 50% or over on 2 point shots ONCE in his entire career for a season. Pathetic.

[Roundball_Rock]

3ball, pace was higher still in the 70's and 60's; efficiency wasn't. The golden era for offensive efficiency is the early 80's through the early 90's. Yet this was the "toughest defensive era ever" because of thugs delivering flagrant fouls?

[dubeta]

Kobrick has only ever shot 50% or over on 2 point shots ONCE in his entire career for a season. Pathetic.