In 20 Years Kobe Will Be Remembered As The GOAT

[SwooshReturns]

Vince Carter underachieved, Penny Hardaway got injured. Huge difference.

[Legends66NBA7]

Vince Carter underachieved, Penny Hardaway got injured. Huge difference.

Yeah, I was actually trying to remember back to whom Bryant was getting comparisons too...

I wasn't trying to go into specifics too much, but you're right on that.

So I think it's safe to say that... he would have been say, Vince Carter, only with 3 rings as the #2 guy, if he didn't have that hunger for more.

[SwooshReturns]

So I think it's safe to say that... he would have been say, Vince Carter, only with 3 rings as the #2 guy, if he didn't have that hunger for more.

He was getting compared to VC even in HS.

He would've been a less athletic Vince Carter w/o the work ethic.

[andgar923]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...=256031&page=3

You do realize that ANYBODY(with an ounce of common sense) can read through the thread and see who(LakersReign) had a VALID, COHERENT, point vs who(andgar923) was OBVIOUSLY trolling(andgar923)....right?


But I get it. Somebody had to try and save the dumba**(andgar923) from himself

Listen.

A. I'm not a Bron fanatic, like you accused me of.

B. Throwing a tantrum? umm... ok.

C. And maybe you have a short memory or a selective one, but some Laker fans did start hailing some of the players that I mentioned, that arrived either via trade or free agency. Just how they're doing with this latest pickup. IN THIS SAME F*CKIN THREAD!!!!

D. How am I even trolling? by stating the truth? notice how not one Laker fan is even coming close to defending your claims, cause well.... they know I'm right. they've seen other Laker fans hail Smush, Mihm, Samaki, and some of the others, then throw them under the bus when things didn't work out.

It's fine, every team has fans like this. Their team picks up a player that they recognize and they feel their team is gonna turn around. Why you feel this is trolling is beyond me.

How you feel that you've proved me wrong is beyond me.

E. YOU started the name calling, and even some tantrums.

F. YOU are the one that's getting dismissed as well.... a troll, or/and an idiot.

I really feel that you've gotta be trolling cause you just can't be this clueless.

[TheImmortal]

He's right. Kobe = GOAT

[Thenameless]

He already was since '09

and about Bird

Kobe - Bird
5 rings - 3 rings
2 finals mvps - 2 finals mvps
1 mvp - 3 mvps
9 all nba 1st teams - 9 all nba 1st teams
9 all defensive 1st teams - 0 all defensive 1st teams
14 allstar teams - 12 allstar teas
2 scoring titles - 0 scoring titles

Kobe belongs in the same tier as Bird

No he doesn't. Bird was much, much better at his best. And as a die hard Lakers fan, I hate the Celtics. The evidence is in the bolded, Bird won three MVP's, that is not luck. Kobe's one MVP might have been generous, as Lebron was already better than him by 2007-2008.

[Nowitness]

It really hinges on how much narrative carries over. Generally, as time passes people who never watched these players will rely on achievements and stats more than stories. Karl Malone in 25 years could be viewed as a top 15 player cause no one will remember all the low points. Without narrative Kobe is at best the 13th greatest player ever, now his standom far exceeds any other player, so it may well live on, but if it doesn’t how does a man with the following be viewed as the GOAT?

Never won without an All-NBA teammate (Duncan won 4 without a teammate making All-NBA).
Missed the playoffs in his prime then got bounced from the first round twice.
Was a 9th seed playing with Gasol, Howard and Nash, got injured and the team won more games.
Stopped playing defence after 04.
Own coach said he was a shitty teammate and defender, countless others claimed he forced them out.
Refused to take a pay cut when he was the 50th best player in the league.
Won a title with Shaq averaging more rebounds than he did points.
Fairly short prime (01-11)
Rape accusations
Trade demand in 07
Got Jackson fired then pouted till he got him back
Lost playing with Shaq, Malone and GP, shot 36% in a finals
Overrated in the clutch

[Kiddlovesnets]

MJ is the one and only GOAT, Kobe is the consensus #12 all time, note the difference.

[3ball]

MJ is the one and only GOAT, Kobe is the consensus #12 all time, note the difference.

the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it

They literally invented the footwork required to average 30 within the offense, so teammates could play to capacity and the team had enough production to win

Think about how much skill it takes to invent footwork that allows you to average 30+ in a strict offense without dominating the ball... aka GOAT

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

[Nowitness]

the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it

They literally invented the footwork required to average 30 within the offense, so teammates could play to capacity and the team had enough production to win

Think about how much skill it takes to invent footwork that allows you to average 30+ in a strict offense without dominating the ball... aka GOAT

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

Pretty sure Shaq won 3 titles as the main offensive weapon of the triangle, so you’re making stuff up. Shaq had mediocre footwork and scored more than Kobe did when he won.

Weak attempt at bigging up Kobe.

[3ball]

Pretty sure Shaq won 3 titles as the main offensive weapon of the triangle, so you’re making stuff up. Shaq had mediocre footwork and scored more than Kobe did when he won.

Weak attempt at bigging up Kobe.

Shaq wasn't the bailout guy in the triangle, and that's what the triangle needs to win - the triangle has zero rings without goat bailout artist (mj or kobe)

Heck, it won 55 without Shaq or Mike - only a bailout artist takes it over the top

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

The only ring that Shaq gets full credit for is 2000 because it's the only one where he averaged materially more than Kobe... But even that ring required Kobe because if he doesn't save the Lakers in Game 3 OT, then the Finals goes 7 games where Shaq's FT shooting could kill the team

[Nowitness]

Shaq wasn't the bailout guy in the triangle, and that's what the triangle needs to win - the triangle has zero rings without goat bailout artist (mj or kobe)

Heck, it won 55 without Shaq or Mike - only a bailout artist takes it over the top

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

The only ring Shaq gets full credit for is 2000... But even that ring required Kobe because if he doesn't save the Lakers in Game 3 OT, then the series goes 7 games

Wait, so Kobe was the ‘ball out’ guy when he averaged less points than Shaq did rebounds in 2000 ������

[Kiddlovesnets]

the triangle is a 55-win offense when run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could actually win rings with it

Nope Kobe isnt MJ's clone, hes a just a MJ-wannabe being worse on every aspect. Not saying Kobe aint a good and legendary player, but comparing him to MJ is ludicrous, its not even close.

[3ball]

Wait, so Kobe was the ‘ball out’ guy when he averaged less points than Shaq did rebounds in 2000 ������

Do you know what "bailout" means?

It means the shot-clock is winding down and a quick iso is needed to bail the team out on that possession.

So Shaq was never a bailout guy - Kobe was the obvious choice in those spots

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

[Nowitness]

Do you know what "bailout" means?

It means the shot-clock is winding down and a quick iso is needed to bail the team out on that possession.

So Shaq was never a bailout guy - Kobe was the obvious choice in those spots

People forget that the triangle put role players in optimal spots, but still needed a sheer bailout on 10-25% of possessions - so it never won in 40 years of existence until the goat bailout artists got a hold of it - then it won 11 rings - mj/kobe and their unique skill was the key that unlocked the triangle's greatness.. otherwise, the triangle was just another offense that no one ever heard of

Sorry, read that as ballout not bailout.

It’s still not a valid point, Kobe in the 2000 finals had games of 8 points, 2 points and 14 points, what was he bailing out? It’s a system in which the play takes longer to develop than other offenses, leading to more shots with less time on the clock if the play fails to develop or if the defence reacts well, but to say you can’t win without someone consistently hitting those shots is ludicrous , because A) they are bad shots and B ) those shots are never hit consistently.

Replace Kobe with any decent 2 Guard in 2000 they still win because Shaq was all time good, and all time good in the triangle. 2 points in a finals game but he was their bail out gtfo